connect.com.au bashing was: [6bone] Address management transfer proposal

[Anand Kumria]

[ My apologies to Mark, they wasn't meant the bashing of a specific     ]
[ ISP but I've somewhat tired of the glib and pat answer I hear so      ]
[ often such as "move ISP" or "ask harder". I've done/do both, and over ] 
[ the course of the year I've become convinced that we need more sticks ]
[ to move people to RIR IPv6 address space                              ]

On Wed, Jan 01, 2003 at 01:50:27PM +1030, Mark Prior wrote:
> At 4:16 PM +1100 31/12/02, Anand Kumria wrote:
> >Transfer to RIRs:
> >
> >Pros:
> >	- no single point of allocation
> >	- delegation of e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa
> >
> >Cons:
> >	- turns 3ffe::/16 into a service which requires payment
> 
> There is no such thing as a free lunch and you should just get over 
> it. 

You missed the point where I said this was a summary of the archive. 
That was the feeling of a number of people posting around August. 

> >Keeping existing system:
> >
> >Pros:
> >	- no changes
> >
> >Cons:
> >	- may induce volunteer burnout
> >	- no e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa delegation
> >	- doesn't excourage migration to production IPv6 addresses
> 
> If people want a production service then they will search it out. If 

Indeed, see below.

> >Some points I noted, my comments are under them:
> >
> >+ RIRs have no incentive to pull-in IPv4 and hand-out IPv6; I think this
> >will guarentee even slower IPv6 rollout
> 
> This seems really bizarre to me. Why on earth would you want to try 
> to force IPv6 down someone's throat like that?

Sometimes change isn't just about the carrots that are available but the
sticks you can avoid if you move.

> >It'd be nice if RIRs started to penalise their large transit/backbone
> >operator for requesting IPv4 space but not have/using IPv6 space. It'd
> >also be nice if pigs had wings too.
> 
> Don't turn the RIRs into policemen 

Huh? They are already. 

> ("you can't have more IPv4 space 
> unless you show us that you are actively using that IPv6 space we 
> leased to you"). It is relatively easy for a tier one to obtain the 
> IPv6 address space 

Yes, look at AS2764 - they've had theirs since '99.

> and even perhaps deploy it 

Ha! Again look as AS2764 for deployment.

> but that doesn't mean customers will want to get access to it. 

Garbage. I'm a current customer of AS2764 and I've had no end of
run arounds from both technical people and account managers.

> I've worked at an ISP where we had IP multicast enabled across the 
> backbone and while we used it there was no customer product and no 
> demand to create one. 

One of my routers is from said ISP and their technical people still
haven't figured out how to get multicast going on it. Perhaps AS2764's
backbone operators knew what they are doing but certainly their customer
facing engineers don't.

> If the customers started beating up their account managers asking for it 

Rubbish. I did this.

> then marketing would have come calling and something would have 
> happened. 

Nothing happened.

> Similarly with IPv6, if the customers want it (and are 
> prepared to pay for it) then ISPs will see the revenue opportunity 
> and do something about it. If the customers don't ask for it then why 
> would an ISP waste resources deploying something that will get no 
> return?

What, if I may ask, was the justification for IPv4 multicast within
Connect then?

> >I'm not even sure if AS701 has IPv6 production addresses. Even worse is
> >that the other major backbone with Australia (AS7474) hasn't even got
> >any (6bone or production) IPv6 addresses.
> 
> You forgot about Connect (AS2764, 2001:210::/35).

Not at all, having dealt with them all year on various technical (and
account related issues) it become clear to me that whatever technical
ability they once had they have managed to junk it.

Here is a proposed motto for AS2764 - "Three years and proudly not announcing".

Sorry if I'm seeming to pick on your ex-employer but your theory on how
they operate doesn't match my experience as a customer.

Regards,
Anand

-- 
 `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think.
 When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never
 leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada