[6bone] RFC2772 rewrite -- bigger scope goals

[Jeroen Massar]

Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:

Short pre-hand pre/conclusion.... RFC2772 all depends on DEFFAYET,
I mean NDSOFTWARE baffling away yet again.
I am really wondering how the other employees of his company think about
all this.
Mike CHENEY, Myriam MOREL, Bruno NASH, Chris BURTON where are you??

> On Sun, 2002-11-17 at 13:57, Robert Kiessling wrote:
> 
<SNIP>

> > For example, all of the LIRs I have spoken to understand the problem
> > with long-distance tunnels and are getting rid of them, while at the
> > same time a 6bone site proudly announced to have more than 
> 90 tunnels.
> 
> You can have a short-distance tunnel with a lot of packet loss...
> 
> We are open for native peering, but many ISP don't want 
> establish native
> peering with us because we don't have a sTLA.
> 6bone can have more native peering if this ISP are more open.

On which _real_ IX (check http://www.v6nap.net/) is "NDSOFTWARE"
present?
Maybe you can go there and people would be pleased to setup a native
peering.

> > > sTLA owner can don't have IPv6 experience because it's not a
> > > requierement for get a sTLA.
> > 
> > Entities operating RIR allocations will have BGP 
> experience, which is
> > more relevent. And they have a view and sense of real network
> > topology.
> 
> Yes, but i mean _IPv6 experience_.

You really need BGP experience to make BGP work. As for routing IPv6
is only playing with bigger addresses, nothing more.

> > > I think that your solution is not good and will kill the 6bone.
> > 
> > It might be more productive if you explained concretely why 
> you think
> > it's a bad idea. I don't see any indication why this would "kill
> > 6bone". What do you mean by this?
> 
> Why your solution is not good:
> 
> - If you cut 6bone and RIR, 6bone will have a very bad routing (i
know,
> it's not a problem for you because you have a sTLA).

They will get better routing as it will be pushed to the edges and
those "not so responsive pTLA's" as you call it (read your own words
below)
won't do any transit routing any more for most sites. All traffic will
be carried over productional links. And as productional links do have
an SLA (that's Service Level Agreement) there is money (penalties and
pay)
behind it too keep it up and working.

This is just like the situation in the current IPv4 world.
No pay/pain, no gain.

> - Many pTLA offer a real production quality service, why limit them ?

If they offer production services they should move to RIR space as 6bone
space was meant for _testing_ and _experimental_ purposes.

> - A pTLA can offer better service than a sTLA.

Now you really have to explain everybody why that is.
Or do you mean the english word "can" is a possibility like:
"I can jump over a mountain" doesn't how high the mountain is.

> - IPv6 world must have the same routing policy, why complicate IPv6
> routing ?

The same as which? As IPv4? Where people inject /30's into the DFZ?
There was another reason for making IPv6 and limiting on TLA sizes:
smaller global routing tables.
Or at least the hope of keeping it in limits so you don't have to buy
a new router with 1TB of memory.

> => Do a clean of 6bone and be more strict on RFC2772 is better.

> Your solution will kill the 6bone because the 6bone will be 
> too limited, and all ISP will resquest a sTLA for do their tests.

Real ISP's can get sTLA's, they pay for it and have a customer base and
other ISP's who they need to keep friends with otherwise they will get
cut off or loose their paying customers.

> > In other words, you operate it as a hobby, while LIRs operate
> > professionally. And it's not just you, it's many other 6bone sites
> > too.
> 
> We don't operate our pTLA as a hobby.
> We operate our pTLA professionally.
> We have a 24x7 contact and we reply within 24 hours.

Which of the one is it, or do you mean there is a contact who is alive
but actually can't be reached? You might start writing in french as that
is probably a better way to express yourself.

> We provide to ours users a production quality service and we 

And do you also act like that to the rest of the world ?
It's not a local problem mind you, not only "oh they don't pay me so I
can break it".

> have a good routing (we use filtering, MED,...).
> 
> A lot of sTLA don't operate their sTLA professionally.
> A lot of sTLA don't have a 24x7 contact and don't reply 
> within 24 hours.
> A lot of sTLA don't have a good routing (they don't use filtering,
> MED,...)

Yeah yeah you pasted that before, do you realize it stands for Multi
Exit Descriminator?
But how can you use it if you only have 1 exit or have you got your own
native IPv6 cables
between your routers?

Greets,
 Jeroen