From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sun Dec 1 04:37:12 2002 From: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:37:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [6bone] belated delegation Message-ID: <200212010437.gB14bD216742@boreas.isi.edu> travel, vacation, and student changes have conspired to delay this announcement beyond the patience level of the requestor. I am sorry. ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;3.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. IN NS ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: 3.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400 IN NS ns1.ndsoftwarenet.com. 3.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400 IN NS ns2.ndsoftwarenet.com. 3.1.0.4.e.f.f.3.ip6.int. 86400 IN NS ns3.ndsoftwarenet.com. -- "When in doubt, Twirl..." -anon From trent@irc-desk.net Sun Dec 1 13:23:31 2002 From: trent@irc-desk.net (Trent Lloyd) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 21:23:31 +0800 Subject: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021201212309.02c251e0@mail.iprimus.com.au> Greetings! Well its happening! In the last year or so, the use of IPv6 has been booming with the advent of news web sites, increasingly popular tunnel brokers and simply more users! So I have decided to run a mini-conference prior to Linux.Conf.Au Linux.conf.au is the Australian Technical Linux Conference - it tours around the Australian cities every year organised by the local LUG in that region - this year it is being hosted by PLUG - The Perth Linux Users Group in Perth, Western Australia. The speaker line up for 2003 is looking to be great and is now available on the website - see http://www.linux.conf.au You can register for the IPv6 mini-conference at http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/register.php and view the current schedule at http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/schedule.php The IPv6 mini-conference will be held before the start of linux.conf.au on Monday 20th January. To attend the IPv6 Conference - you must also attend the main conference ... or else ... The IPv6 mini-conference is included with every ticket to linux.conf.au! That's two for the price of one - also running on the second day will be the Linux Gaming Mini Conference - for all your fragging needs - as well as the educationaLinux and Debian mini-conferences. We are also looking for more speakers! We currently have 2-3 slots open for other speakers to participate - so give Trent 'Lathiat' Lloyd an email at trent AT ztsoftware DOT net - and check out the website at http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/ (Its IPv6 Connected too!) Well I hope to see all of you registering, coming along and having a LOT of fun, if you have any question just give me a yell - trent(AT)ztsoftware(DOT)net -- Trent Lloyd (IPv6 Mini-Conference Organiser) From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Dec 1 16:34:52 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:34:52 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Ghost Route Hunter Message-ID: <000301c29957$93938bc0$210d640a@unfix.org> I am proud to present a smallish analytical tool we've developed for tracking down Ghost Routes. The tool is called: Ghost Route Hunter and can be found at: https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ It analyzes routing table dumps and filters out all 'good' ASpaths. The remaining ASpaths are too long and are so called 'ghost routes'. These Ghost Routes cause the blackholing effect seen many times before when upgrading RIR space from a /35 to a /32. We've just conducted a small test by announcing the Easynet prefix 2001:6f8:e000::/35, which wasn't used and announced before. Easynet only announces 2001:6f8::/35 at this moment due to the danger of ghostroutes when upgrading it to a /32. At 14:30* it wasn't visible yet as a ghost route, at the next table collection at 14:45 it was visible as a ghost route in both the routers of Tilab and Noris. At 15:00 it was only visible on the Intouch router but it had spread quite rapidly already around the world creating a long ASpath. Then we retracted the route again and at 15:20 it fortunatly vanished. Would this been a real announcement, eg by upgrading a /35 to a /32 this would have caused a blackhole for the complete /32 unless the /35 would have been announced forever. One very important thing we saw with this small test was the fact that VERAT where originating the prefix at one moment. Also DFN (JOIN) which appears in about 90%+ of all the ghost routes should check up their equipment. Another possible important player in this could be AS10318 (Cablevision S.A.) which isn't even in the european continent nor peering directly with the ghosted prefixes. Currently there are still 4 big ghost routes floating around: - 3ffe:100::/24 netname: TELEBIT descr: pTLA delegation for the 6bone Which dropped of the internet around tuesday when looking at the latency graphs*. ipv6telebit.tbit.dk is unreachable over IPv4. The graphs also show that it was only reachable from two out six sites. - 3ffe:1400::/24 netname: UNI-C descr: pTLA delegation for the 6bone remarks: *************************************** remarks: * * * * no longer operational * * * * remarks: *************************************** But still visible and ghosted and not officially retracted! Last changed line: changed: Anders.Bandholm@uni-c.dk 20010420 This would mean that the route would have been gone for over a year and a half! This route is currently announced by VERAT and Deutsche Telekom though. - 3ffe:1e00::/24 ipv6-site: SWISSCOM origin: AS3303 descr: Swisscom Innovations No netname available apparently. But it is currently announced by: source: APNIC aut-num: AS4697 as-name: NTTV6NET descr: NTT Software Laboratories I have already contacted these people seperatly, no response as yet. Nothing in their 6bone object seems reachable. - 3ffe:8010::/28 ipv6-site: ICM-PL origin: AS8664 descr: Interdisciplinary Centre for Mathematical and Computational Modelling Warsaw University, Poland Origin is currently ICM-PL and ICP-AS. 6bone-gw.6bone.pl is unreachable over IPv4 and IPv6 http://www.6bone.net/6bone_pTLA_list.html doesn't show that NL-BIT6/NL was returned. Apparently 3ffe:1400::/24 should say that too. * direct links: 14:30 https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ghosts/?year=2002&month=12&day=01&time=1 43017 15:00 https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ghosts/?year=2002&month=12&day=01&time=1 50009 15:20 https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ghosts/?year=2002&month=12&day=01&time=1 52013 Latency graphs: https://www.sixxs.net/misc/latency/ Companies mentioned have been CC'd. This goes to both v6ops and 6bone as it causes many effects in both RIR and 6bone space. Greets, Jeroen From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Dec 1 17:34:12 2002 From: nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net (Nicolas DEFFAYET) Date: 01 Dec 2002 18:34:12 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Ghost Route Hunter In-Reply-To: <000301c29957$93938bc0$210d640a@unfix.org> References: <000301c29957$93938bc0$210d640a@unfix.org> Message-ID: <1038764052.11787.28.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> On Sun, 2002-12-01 at 17:34, Jeroen Massar wrote: > One very important thing we saw with this small test was the fact > that VERAT where originating the prefix at one moment. > Also DFN (JOIN) which appears in about 90%+ of all the ghost routes > should check up their equipment. Another possible important player > in this could be AS10318 (Cablevision S.A.) which isn't even in the > european continent nor peering directly with the ghosted prefixes. AS10318 (FIBERTEL) is the common ASN of all ghost routes. See my stats of 2002-11-21: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/bgp-ghost.html Best Regards, -- Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/ FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/ From gert@space.net Sun Dec 1 23:16:25 2002 From: gert@space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:16:25 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Re: Ghost Route Hunter In-Reply-To: <000301c29957$93938bc0$210d640a@unfix.org>; from jeroen@unfix.org on Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 05:34:52PM +0100 References: <000301c29957$93938bc0$210d640a@unfix.org> Message-ID: <20021202001625.F15927@Space.Net> Hi, On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 05:34:52PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote: > At 14:30* it wasn't visible yet as a ghost route, at the > next table collection at 14:45 it was visible as a ghost route > in both the routers of Tilab and Noris. > At 15:00 it was only visible on the Intouch router but it had > spread quite rapidly already around the world creating a long ASpath. > Then we retracted the route again and at 15:20 it fortunatly vanished. I just want to point out that this is mostly normal BGP behaviour in the face of highly meshed topologies and/or participating routers with a slow CPU. The way BGP works upon withdraw (figure out what's the "second best path", and happily announce that path to all your neighbors, and do not announce the next update before minute has passed!) it's pretty normal for a route to "ghost around" for 30 minutes or even longer after a full withdraw. If you look at a BGP table in that time, the path will be changing every few minutes. You can observe this in the IPv4 world as well - if you withdraw a prefix completely, and then do traceroutes on that route, you'll see that it will be routed for quite a while before it finally is dropped from the DFZ. It usually takes 15-20 minutes, but the IPv4 world is much less tightly meshed due to policitical reasons. (This behaviour is also known from RIP, and from there it's also called "count to infinity" for BGP) The thing that I have called "Ghost Routes" was something different - one of the routers involved not properly propagating the withdraw to all his neighbors. After all other paths have disappeared, this prefix is still seen by the neighbor (no regular "full sync" in BGP) and believed until the next session clear. This can be seen in the routing table as a static BGP path that isn't changing over many hours or in some cases even over many days or weeks. [..] > Would this been a real announcement, eg by upgrading a /35 to a /32 > this would have caused a blackhole for the complete /32 unless > the /35 would have been announced forever. ... for those 75 minutes, yes. > One very important thing we saw with this small test was the fact > that VERAT where originating the prefix at one moment. > Also DFN (JOIN) which appears in about 90%+ of all the ghost routes > should check up their equipment. Another possible important player > in this could be AS10318 (Cablevision S.A.) which isn't even in the > european continent nor peering directly with the ghosted prefixes. I wouldn't point fingers at ASes and equipment yet (not without evidence that the prefix really gets stuck for a longer time). But it is strong evidence that the "6mess" needs to cleaned up Real Soon Now, i.e.: don't give everybody *and the whole world behind him* transit everyhwere. [..] > Currently there are still 4 big ghost routes floating around: > - 3ffe:100::/24 > netname: TELEBIT Seconded, this looks very much like a ghost. The paths that I observe are completely unchanged since over 24 hrs. From a cursory view, it seems to be stuck in 1275 or between 1275 and 2603. > - 3ffe:1400::/24 > netname: UNI-C I don't have that prefix. > - 3ffe:1e00::/24 > ipv6-site: SWISSCOM Seconded. Overly long AS paths, static since > 24 hrs. > - 3ffe:8010::/28 > ipv6-site: ICM-PL Seconded. Overly long AS paths, static since > 24 hrs. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 54136 (50279) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 From schild@uni-muenster.de Mon Dec 2 12:15:47 2002 From: schild@uni-muenster.de (Christian Schild) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:15:47 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Ghost Route Hunter In-Reply-To: <000301c29957$93938bc0$210d640a@unfix.org> References: <000301c29957$93938bc0$210d640a@unfix.org> Message-ID: <200212021315.48011.ipng@uni-muenster.de> Hi Jeroen, all, Am Sonntag, 1. Dezember 2002 17:34 schrieb Jeroen Massar: > Also DFN (JOIN) which appears in about 90%+ of all the ghost routes > should check up their equipment. Another possible important player we are aware of this fact for quite some time now and it did not pass us unconcerned. Still, JOIN is one of the largest POPs in 6bone, so the high value might just be a consequence of this fact. We discussed the route withdrawal problem with most of our peering partners and we are quite sure that we do not orginate them. Anyway, as we are not certain of this, please note that we decided to exchange the equipment we use (no, it's currently _not_ a software router :-). This will happen this week. So please take this message also as an announcement that there will be an outage of the JOIN POP (involving/including all our leaf sites with prefix 3ffe:400::/24) on Wednesday, 4th December, hopefully only in the morning (CET). So long, Christian -- JOIN - IP Version 6 in the WiN Christian Schild A DFN project Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster Project Team email: Zentrum fuer Informationsverarbeitung join@uni-muenster.de Roentgenstrasse 9-13 http://www.join.uni-muenster.de D-48149 Muenster / Germany email: schild@uni-muenster.de,phone: +49 251 83 31638, fax: +49 251 83 31653 From pasky@xs26.net Mon Dec 2 15:32:31 2002 From: pasky@xs26.net (Petr Baudis) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:32:31 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [andrei@ripe.net: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Re: ip6.arpa for 6bone] Message-ID: <20021202153231.GD25628@pasky.ji.cz> Hello, since this is a vital issue for the 6bone community, I decided to forward this email here: ----- Forwarded message from Andrei Robachevsky ----- From: Andrei Robachevsky To: Petr Baudis Subject: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Re: ip6.arpa for 6bone Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 16:06:17 +0100 Cc: Gert Doering , ipv6-wg@ripe.net, David Kessens List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: RIPE IPv6 Working Group Dear Colleagues, Petr Baudis wrote: > Dear diary, on Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 12:31:33PM CET, I got a letter, > where Andrei Robachevsky told me, that... > >> Hi, > > > Hello, > > >>> There's no need for the RIRs to actually do anything, besides >>> give up the blockade position "the 6bone is not a RIR and per the >>> RFC, only RIRs can do reverse delegation under ip6.arpa". Have >>> IANA delegate e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa to the same set of servers as >>> e.f.f.3.ip6.int (as per Bill Manning's request that was denied >>> due to RIR disapproval), and be done with it. >>> >> >> We are looking for a pragmatic solution to this technical problem. >> This will be discussed with the other RIRs in the course of the >> next week and at IETF. We expect to have a solution in place by the >> end of November. > > > since it's Nov 30 today, I would like to ask about progress in this > issue. > > Thanks in advance, > Following the request from the community we investigated possibilities to provide a pragmatic technical solution for reverse DNS delegation under ip6.arpa, for the space allocated for 6bone purposes (3ffe). It was understood that the request was to provide a solution before a final decision is made on the future management of the 3ffe address space. This issue was discussed between the RIRs at the IETF-55 meeting. As a result the RIRs have forwarded the request to place the 3ffe space in the ip6.arpa zone to the IAB, seeing that it would be an action that is contrary to RFC 3152. If the request is honoured we will be able to present a proposal for your review. Best regards, Andrei Robachevsky CTO, RIPE NCC ----- End forwarded message ----- Kind regards, -- Petr "Pasky" Baudis . > I don't know why people still want ACL's. There were noises about them for > samba, but I'v enot heard anything since. Are vendors using this? Because People Are Stupid(tm). Because it's cheaper to put "ACL support: yes" in the feature list under "Security" than to make sure than userland can cope with anything more complex than "Me Og. Og see directory. Directory Og's. Nobody change it". C.f. snake oil, P.T.Barnum and esp. LSM users -- Al Viro . Crap: http://pasky.ji.cz/ From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Dec 2 16:46:23 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:46:23 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Ghost Route Hunter In-Reply-To: <200212021315.48011.ipng@uni-muenster.de> Message-ID: <000b01c29a22$5aa9acb0$210d640a@unfix.org> Christian Schild [mailto:ipng@uni-muenster.de] wrote: > Hi Jeroen, all, > > Am Sonntag, 1. Dezember 2002 17:34 schrieb Jeroen Massar: > > Also DFN (JOIN) which appears in about 90%+ of all the ghost routes > > should check up their equipment. Another possible important player > > we are aware of this fact for quite some time now and it did not pass > us unconcerned. Still, JOIN is one of the largest POPs in > 6bone, so the high value might just be a consequence of this fact. We discussed the > route withdrawal problem with most of our peering partners and we are > quite sure that we do not orginate them. That's also the case for VBNS, HURRICANE, UUNET and ABILENE who pass along many routes over their native connections. At this moment (17:20) UUNET, GBLX, DFN, Caladan and VERAT carry all ghost routes. That's the 'problem' of being a transit :) Their equipment could be perfect but apparently somebody downstream or upstream could peep it up. > Anyway, as we are not certain of this, please note that we decided to > exchange the equipment we use (no, it's currently _not_ a software > router :-). This will happen this week. > > So please take this message also as an announcement that > there will be > an outage of the JOIN POP (involving/including all our leaf > sites with prefix 3ffe:400::/24) on Wednesday, 4th December, hopefully > only in the morning (CET). Perfect! I like the fact that you respond and give a notice of the fact that your actively pursuing the problems with ofcourse the target to solve it. Also 2 ghost routes have vanished already: 3ffe:100::/24 now only has a short path to 3263 (TELEBIT-DK). Which was last seen at 2002-12-02 08:40. 3ffe:8010::/28 now only has a short path to 8664 (ICM-PL). Which was last seen at 2002-12-02 15:10. I due hope to hear comments from the concerned parties if they have any relevant information about the disappearance of these ghosts. Left are of which I heared nothing (yet, I hope): 3ffe:1400::/24 3ffe:1e00::/24 Greets, Jeroen From Emanuele.Logalbo@TILAB.COM Mon Dec 2 16:58:32 2002 From: Emanuele.Logalbo@TILAB.COM (Lo Galbo Emanuele) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 17:58:32 +0100 Subject: [6bone] ipv6 multicast Message-ID: <9620749A0C40FB49B72994B11B077C5DD25EEA@EXC2K01A.cselt.it> Hi; I am settig up an ipv6 multicast network in my lab.I have two cisco routers(3600,7200) and i thought to use freeBsd and Kame patch for the implementation. What do you thik about? Could you suggest me anything about? Could i implement it in a differt way? ==================================================================== CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons above and may contain confidential information. If you have received the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by replying to MailAdmin@tilab.com. Thank you ==================================================================== From dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx Mon Dec 2 17:05:00 2002 From: dios-vol@telecom.noc.udg.mx (Harold de Dios Tovar) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:05:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: [6bone] ipv6 multicast In-Reply-To: <9620749A0C40FB49B72994B11B077C5DD25EEA@EXC2K01A.cselt.it> Message-ID: Hi Lo, I supose that you know that actullay Cisco is not implementing IPv6 multicast but we hope that Cisco people delivered the IOS with multicast support the next year 2003. But you can implement multicast using a freeBSD host to router multicast ipv6 the tools are very stable. ** Texto sin acentos --------------------------------- N.O.C & IPv6 staff working Group ------------------------------------ Harold de Dios, harold@noc.udg.mx UdeG, Network Operation Center Work: 011(52)3331342232 ext.2220 --------------------------------- On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Lo Galbo Emanuele wrote: > Hi; > I am settig up an ipv6 multicast network in my lab.I have two cisco routers(3600,7200) and i thought to use freeBsd and Kame patch for the implementation. > What do you thik about? > Could you suggest me anything about? > Could i implement it in a differt way? > > > > > ==================================================================== > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons > above and may contain confidential information. If you have received > the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof > is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete > the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by > replying to MailAdmin@tilab.com. Thank you > ==================================================================== > _______________________________________________ > 6bone mailing list > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone > From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Dec 2 20:18:31 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:18:31 +0100 Subject: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32 Message-ID: <000f01c29a3f$fc5dfb70$210d640a@unfix.org> While snooping around I found the following: * 3ffe:400f::/32 0 13110 6939 6939 6435 6342 45333 i 2001:6e0:0:113::2(fe80::3e15:6206) * 3ffe:400f::/32 10 0 12859 3265 3549 6175 6435 6342 45333 i 2001:7f8:1::a501:2859:1(fe80::202:4aff:fe8a:a000) ------->8 See below for more paths. 8<-------- ipv6-site: UACH origin: AS11340 descr: Universidad Austral de Chile(ASN from REUNA) Instituto de Informatica country: CL prefix: 3FFE:400F::/32 -------->8 Did somebody sneak behind and steal this prefix??? I also remember certain sites saying that they are filtering on reserved ASN's. Those certain sites will know who we mean :) Ofcourse Compendium-AR are also using a reserved AS but that is a 'known' odd one out and is documented in the 6bone db. They should kick LACNIC, maybe they can get a special new entrance fee or something? Greets, Jeroen 8<------ * 3ffe:400f::/32 0 5609 22 109 6435 6342 45333 i 3ffe:1001:1:f00d::1(fe80::a3a2:aa81) * 3ffe:400f::/32 0 8664 9112 2200 766 3597 45333 i 3ffe:8010:2c::1(fe80::c1db:1cf6) * 3ffe:400f::/32 0 3265 3549 6175 6435 6342 45333 i 2001:7f8:1::a500:3265:2 * 3ffe:400f::/32 0 3265 3549 6175 6435 6342 45333 i 2001:7f8:1::a500:3265:1 * 3ffe:400f::/32 0 1275 3320 109 109 6435 6342 45589 i 3ffe:401:0:1::17:1(fe80::2c0:33ff:fe07:8042) * 3ffe:400f::/32 0 517 8472 6830 6175 6435 6342 45333 i 2001:680:0:1::10(fe80::c18d:280c) * 3ffe:400f::/32 1 0 4554 109 6435 6342 45333 i 3ffe:800::fffb:0:0:5(fe80::c620:401) * 3ffe:400f::/32 500 0 109 109 6435 6342 45333 i 3ffe:c00:8023:1f::1(fe80::806b:f0fe) *> 3ffe:400f::/32 0 13193 25358 6435 6342 45333 i 2001:6e0:0:112::2(fe80::3e04:101c) * 3ffe:400f::/32 0 513 2200 766 3597 45333 i 3ffe:8120::19:1(fe80::c041:b907) * 3ffe:400f::/32 0 8379 8379 6435 6342 45333 i 2001:768:e:2::1(fe80::2d0:79ff:fee2:7800) * 3ffe:400f::/32 0 8277 8379 8379 6435 6342 45333 i 3ffe:8100:200:1fff::1 ------>8 From 6bone@megabot.nl Mon Dec 2 21:14:43 2002 From: 6bone@megabot.nl (Mendel Mobach) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:14:43 +0100 Subject: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32 In-Reply-To: <000f01c29a3f$fc5dfb70$210d640a@unfix.org> References: <000f01c29a3f$fc5dfb70$210d640a@unfix.org> Message-ID: <200212022214.43044.6bone@megabot.nl> On Monday 02 December 2002 21:18, Jeroen Massar wrote: > Ofcourse Compendium-AR are also using a reserved AS but > that is a 'known' odd one out and is documented in the 6bone db. There is more: What about: inet6num: 3FFE:4011::/32 netname: EURO6IX ipv6-site: EURO6IX origin: AS65504 not a very old site I guess... -- Mendel Mobach aka BugBlue - mendel@mobach.nl - laime@megabot.nl ICQ: 40200278 - IRC: BugBlue (ircnet:#ne2000 opn:#linux.nl) 10:12pm up 22:41, 5 users, load average: 0.69, 0.40, 0.31 From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Mon Dec 2 22:11:15 2002 From: nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net (Nicolas DEFFAYET) Date: 02 Dec 2002 23:11:15 +0100 Subject: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32 In-Reply-To: <200212022214.43044.6bone@megabot.nl> References: <000f01c29a3f$fc5dfb70$210d640a@unfix.org> <200212022214.43044.6bone@megabot.nl> Message-ID: <1038867075.6392.178.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 22:14, Mendel Mobach wrote: > On Monday 02 December 2002 21:18, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > Ofcourse Compendium-AR are also using a reserved AS but > > that is a 'known' odd one out and is documented in the 6bone db. > > There is more: > > What about: > inet6num: 3FFE:4011::/32 > netname: EURO6IX > ipv6-site: EURO6IX > origin: AS65504 > > not a very old site I guess... See archives (2002-08) for more information about EURO6IX pTLA. BGP routing table entry for 3ffe:4011::/32 Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table) Advertised to non peer-group peers: 2001:7a8:1:f004::1 3ffe:4013:0:1::2 3ffe:4013:f:4::2 3ffe:4013:f:7::2 3ffe:4013:f:12::2 3ffe:4013:f:18::2 3ffe:4013:f:1b::2 3ffe:4013:f:1e::2 3ffe:4013:f:21::2 3ffe:4013:f:25::2 3ffe:4013:f:29::2 3ffe:4013:f:2b::2 3ffe:4013:f:30::2 1752 2001:7f8:2:c01d::2 from 2001:7f8:2:c01d::2 (213.121.24.91) (fe80::d579:185b) Origin IGP, metric 2200, localpref 100, valid, external, best Community: 25358:300 25358:360 25358:410 25358:900 25358:1000 25358:3000 Last update: Sun Dec 1 22:35:09 2002 Best Regards, -- Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/ FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/ From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Dec 2 22:15:18 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 23:15:18 +0100 Subject: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32 In-Reply-To: <200212022214.43044.6bone@megabot.nl> Message-ID: <000101c29a50$4c9660e0$210d640a@unfix.org> Mendel Mobach wrote: > On Monday 02 December 2002 21:18, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > Ofcourse Compendium-AR are also using a reserved AS but > > that is a 'known' odd one out and is documented in the 6bone db. > > There is more: > > What about: > inet6num: 3FFE:4011::/32 > netname: EURO6IX > ipv6-site: EURO6IX > origin: AS65504 > > not a very old site I guess... That's also a 'known' abuser of reserved AS space for a TLA. Greets, Jeroen From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Mon Dec 2 22:23:55 2002 From: nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net (Nicolas DEFFAYET) Date: 02 Dec 2002 23:23:55 +0100 Subject: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32 In-Reply-To: <000f01c29a3f$fc5dfb70$210d640a@unfix.org> References: <000f01c29a3f$fc5dfb70$210d640a@unfix.org> Message-ID: <1038867835.6380.201.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 21:18, Jeroen Massar wrote: > While snooping around I found the following: > > * 3ffe:400f::/32 0 13110 > 6939 6939 6435 6342 45333 i > 2001:6e0:0:113::2(fe80::3e15:6206) > * 3ffe:400f::/32 10 0 12859 > 3265 3549 6175 6435 6342 45333 i > 2001:7f8:1::a501:2859:1(fe80::202:4aff:fe8a:a000) > ------->8 > > See below for more paths. > > 8<-------- > ipv6-site: UACH > origin: AS11340 > descr: Universidad Austral de Chile(ASN from REUNA) > Instituto de Informatica > country: CL > prefix: 3FFE:400F::/32 > -------->8 UACH has NEVER respect RFC2772. http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-July/005719.html 1.b (Fully maintained, and reliable, BGP4+ peering and connectivity...): empty 2.a (A support staff of two persons minimum, three preferable...): empty, only one person in whois (CLR1-6BONE) Best Regards, -- Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/ FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/ From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Mon Dec 2 22:45:54 2002 From: nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net (Nicolas DEFFAYET) Date: 02 Dec 2002 23:45:54 +0100 Subject: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32 In-Reply-To: <000101c29a50$4c9660e0$210d640a@unfix.org> References: <000101c29a50$4c9660e0$210d640a@unfix.org> Message-ID: <1038869154.6369.228.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 23:15, Jeroen Massar wrote: > Mendel Mobach wrote: > > > On Monday 02 December 2002 21:18, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > > Ofcourse Compendium-AR are also using a reserved AS but > > > that is a 'known' odd one out and is documented in the 6bone db. > > > > There is more: > > > > What about: > > inet6num: 3FFE:4011::/32 > > netname: EURO6IX > > ipv6-site: EURO6IX > > origin: AS65504 > > > > not a very old site I guess... > > That's also a 'known' abuser of reserved AS space for a TLA. AS65504 is a private ASN, not a reserved ASN ! Use of private ASN is more honest. Best Regards, -- Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/ FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/ From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Dec 2 22:49:01 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 23:49:01 +0100 Subject: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32 In-Reply-To: <1038869154.6369.228.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> Message-ID: <000301c29a55$02851910$210d640a@unfix.org> Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote: > On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 23:15, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > Mendel Mobach wrote: > > > > > On Monday 02 December 2002 21:18, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > > > Ofcourse Compendium-AR are also using a reserved AS but > > > > that is a 'known' odd one out and is documented in the 6bone db. > > > > > > There is more: > > > > > > What about: > > > inet6num: 3FFE:4011::/32 > > > netname: EURO6IX > > > ipv6-site: EURO6IX > > > origin: AS65504 > > > > > > not a very old site I guess... > > > > That's also a 'known' abuser of reserved AS space for a TLA. > > AS65504 is a private ASN, not a reserved ASN ! > Use of private ASN is more honest. It should NOT exist in the DFZ. Quite easy. And as I said.. some certain sites that say they filter private & reserved ASN's apparently don't do so ;) Greets, Jeroen From 6bone@megabot.nl Mon Dec 2 23:23:21 2002 From: 6bone@megabot.nl (Mendel Mobach) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 00:23:21 +0100 Subject: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32 In-Reply-To: <1038869154.6369.228.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> References: <000101c29a50$4c9660e0$210d640a@unfix.org> <1038869154.6369.228.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> Message-ID: <200212030023.21740.6bone@megabot.nl> On Monday 02 December 2002 23:45, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote: [..] > > > There is more: > > > > > > What about: > > > inet6num: 3FFE:4011::/32 > > > netname: EURO6IX > > > ipv6-site: EURO6IX > > > origin: AS65504 > > > > > > not a very old site I guess... > > > > That's also a 'known' abuser of reserved AS space for a TLA. > > AS65504 is a private ASN, not a reserved ASN ! > Use of private ASN is more honest. Of course it is not. I could barf your local setups, tests and more. Also: Some nice documents on filtering learned me to filter (I object, but that has another reason) on prefix size and filter out (at least: do not send to peers) private AS numbers. Kind Regards, Mendel Mobach -- Mendel Mobach aka BugBlue - mendel@mobach.nl - laime@megabot.nl ICQ: 40200278 - IRC: BugBlue (ircnet:#ne2000 opn:#linux.nl) 12:19am up 1 day, 48 min, 6 users, load average: 2.16, 1.55, 1.12 From daniel@unix.za.net Tue Dec 3 07:32:34 2002 From: daniel@unix.za.net (Daniel Schroder) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:32:34 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [6bone] ipv6 multicast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20021203092859.B30129-100000@unix.za.net> How would ff02::9 routes get propogated on Cisco routers then , if it does not support multicast. I know thats not the only way to distribute routes , but I thought that was a feature of Ipv6 .. all nodes bieng multicast enabled ? --Daniel Schroder (SysAdmin) Unix users .. South Africa On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Harold de Dios Tovar wrote: > Hi Lo, I supose that you know that actullay Cisco is not implementing IPv6 > multicast but we hope that Cisco people delivered the IOS with multicast > support the next year 2003. > > But you can implement multicast using a freeBSD host to router multicast > ipv6 the tools are very stable. > > > ** Texto sin acentos > > --------------------------------- > N.O.C & IPv6 staff working Group > ------------------------------------ > Harold de Dios, harold@noc.udg.mx > UdeG, Network Operation Center > Work: 011(52)3331342232 ext.2220 > --------------------------------- > > > On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Lo Galbo Emanuele wrote: > > > Hi; > > I am settig up an ipv6 multicast network in my lab.I have two cisco routers(3600,7200) and i thought to use freeBsd and Kame patch for the implementation. > > What do you thik about? > > Could you suggest me anything about? > > Could i implement it in a differt way? > > > > > > > > > > ==================================================================== > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons > > above and may contain confidential information. If you have received > > the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof > > is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete > > the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by > > replying to MailAdmin@tilab.com. Thank you > > ==================================================================== > > _______________________________________________ > > 6bone mailing list > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone > > > > _______________________________________________ > 6bone mailing list > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone > From matsuoka@syce.net Tue Dec 3 07:40:18 2002 From: matsuoka@syce.net (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?Ik1BVFNVT0tBGyRCISEbKEJIaXJvdGFrYSI=?=) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 16:40:18 +0900 Subject: [6bone] Re: Ghost Route Hunter Message-ID: <4.3.2-J.20021203155639.0333ec70@mail.nttv6.net> Hi, Jeroen, all, >- 3ffe:1e00::/24 >ipv6-site: SWISSCOM >origin: AS3303 >descr: Swisscom Innovations > >No netname available apparently. But it is currently announced by: >source: APNIC >aut-num: AS4697 >as-name: NTTV6NET >descr: NTT Software Laboratories > >I have already contacted these people seperatly, no response as yet. >Nothing in their 6bone object seems reachable. We -NTTv6net- have just relayed to transit routes of 3ffe:1e00::/24 at points in time, and there have no longer existed any route in NTTv6net about 3ffe:1e00::/24. I think somewhere-else might advertise old and wrong information. And, let me know which address did you send e-mails to, query@nttv6.net or noc@nttv6.net can deliver your message to each of operator, but I haven't. Regards, Hirotaka MATSUOKA From =?iso-8859-1?Q?C=E9sar_Olvera_Morales?= Tue Dec 3 08:50:09 2002 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?C=E9sar_Olvera_Morales?= (=?iso-8859-1?Q?C=E9sar_Olvera_Morales?=) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:50:09 +0100 Subject: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32 References: <000301c29a55$02851910$210d640a@unfix.org> Message-ID: <00e101c29aa9$026c7cd0$3500000a@consulintel.es> Hi All, Apologizes for the inconvenient using a private ASN, we are working toward get an ASN from RIPE. We hope solve this issue ASAP. Regards, César Olvera Euro6IX pTLA Manager ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeroen Massar" To: "'Nicolas DEFFAYET'" Cc: "'Mendel Mobach'" <6bone@megabot.nl>; <6bone@ISI.EDU> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 11:49 PM Subject: RE: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32 > Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote: > > > On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 23:15, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > > Mendel Mobach wrote: > > > > > > > On Monday 02 December 2002 21:18, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > > > > Ofcourse Compendium-AR are also using a reserved AS but > > > > > that is a 'known' odd one out and is documented in the 6bone db. > > > > > > > > There is more: > > > > > > > > What about: > > > > inet6num: 3FFE:4011::/32 > > > > netname: EURO6IX > > > > ipv6-site: EURO6IX > > > > origin: AS65504 > > > > > > > > not a very old site I guess... > > > > > > That's also a 'known' abuser of reserved AS space for a TLA. > > > > AS65504 is a private ASN, not a reserved ASN ! > > Use of private ASN is more honest. > > It should NOT exist in the DFZ. > Quite easy. > > And as I said.. some certain sites that say they filter private & > reserved ASN's > apparently don't do so ;) > > Greets, > Jeroen > *********************************** Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit 12-14 May 2003 - Soon on line at: http://www.ipv6-es.com Interested in participating or sponsoring ? Contact us at ipv6@consulintel.es From gert@space.net Tue Dec 3 08:48:18 2002 From: gert@space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:48:18 +0100 Subject: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32 In-Reply-To: <1038869154.6369.228.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com>; from nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net on Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 11:45:54PM +0100 References: <000101c29a50$4c9660e0$210d640a@unfix.org> <1038869154.6369.228.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> Message-ID: <20021203094818.M15927@Space.Net> Hi, On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 11:45:54PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote: > AS65504 is a private ASN, not a reserved ASN ! > Use of private ASN is more honest. Neither private nor reserved ASN should be visible globally. *Ever*. Also it's bad practice to generate AS announcements from a private ASN that is then stripped by the upstreams with "remove-private-as", because it creates inconsistent AS paths, and it's hard to troubleshoot who is actually behind it if something breaks. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 54136 (50279) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Tue Dec 3 10:45:34 2002 From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Tim Chown) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:45:34 +0000 Subject: [6bone] ipv6 multicast In-Reply-To: References: <9620749A0C40FB49B72994B11B077C5DD25EEA@EXC2K01A.cselt.it> Message-ID: <20021203104534.GC28629@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> There is an IOS PIM-SM image for IPv6. We've been running it for a while and have gien feedback. A new EFT update is due soon. This is not for GSR family yet though. This is on the 6NET project (www.6net.org) and the m6bone (www.m6bone.net). We also use FreeBSD and are looking at 6WIND and Hitachi implementations. Tim On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 11:05:00AM -0600, Harold de Dios Tovar wrote: > Hi Lo, I supose that you know that actullay Cisco is not implementing IPv6 > multicast but we hope that Cisco people delivered the IOS with multicast > support the next year 2003. > > But you can implement multicast using a freeBSD host to router multicast > ipv6 the tools are very stable. > > > ** Texto sin acentos > > --------------------------------- > N.O.C & IPv6 staff working Group > ------------------------------------ > Harold de Dios, harold@noc.udg.mx > UdeG, Network Operation Center > Work: 011(52)3331342232 ext.2220 > --------------------------------- > > > On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Lo Galbo Emanuele wrote: > > > Hi; > > I am settig up an ipv6 multicast network in my lab.I have two cisco routers(3600,7200) and i thought to use freeBsd and Kame patch for the implementation. > > What do you thik about? > > Could you suggest me anything about? > > Could i implement it in a differt way? > > > > > > > > > > ==================================================================== > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons > > above and may contain confidential information. If you have received > > the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof > > is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete > > the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by > > replying to MailAdmin@tilab.com. Thank you > > ==================================================================== > > _______________________________________________ > > 6bone mailing list > > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone > > > > _______________________________________________ > 6bone mailing list > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone From HahnC@t-systems.com Tue Dec 3 12:26:42 2002 From: HahnC@t-systems.com (Hahn, Ch) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:26:42 +0100 Subject: [6bone] AW: Ghost Route Hunter Message-ID: <834CCB6AE296D5119645000347055E5E03534343@G9JNQ.mgb01.telekom.de> Hi Jeron, > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: Jeroen Massar [mailto:jeroen@unfix.org] > Gesendet: Sonntag, 1. Dezember 2002 17:35 > An: v6ops@ops.ietf.org; 6bone@ISI.EDU > Cc: dnofal@CVTCI.COM.AR; radovic@net.yu; stana@verat.net; > awl@verat.net; > wlf@verat.net; noc@noc.dfn.de; kukl@tbit.dk; hha@tbit.dk; > Anders.Bandholm@uni-c.dk; Ole.Kjaergaard@uni-c.dk > Betreff: Ghost Route Hunter > -------------------8<--------------------------------------- > > Currently there are still 4 big ghost routes floating around: > - 3ffe:100::/24 > netname: TELEBIT > descr: pTLA delegation for the 6bone > Which dropped of the internet around tuesday when looking at > the latency > graphs*. > ipv6telebit.tbit.dk is unreachable over IPv4. The graphs also > show that > it was > only reachable from two out six sites. Have this route in table. > > - 3ffe:1400::/24 > netname: UNI-C > descr: pTLA delegation for the 6bone > remarks: *************************************** > remarks: * * * * no longer operational * * * * > remarks: *************************************** > > But still visible and ghosted and not officially retracted! > > Last changed line: > changed: Anders.Bandholm@uni-c.dk 20010420 > > This would mean that the route would have been gone for over > a year and > a half! > This route is currently announced by VERAT and Deutsche > Telekom though. >From my point of view it looks a little bit different. I see this route in my table via two paths with a number of >25 ASes in path and still incomplete. Last AS before incompletness in both cases is 15982 (VERAT). We have a peering with VERAT but don't receiving this route from them. Instead we announing the route to them. I've checked the FUBAR, STBEN-BE looking glass and saw the route with our AS appended. Currently I have no idea how and where in the path our AS# is appended, but I'm shure that we are not originating this route. At first step I will filter this route and then lets see if it will vanish or change its path. > > - 3ffe:1e00::/24 > ipv6-site: SWISSCOM > origin: AS3303 > descr: Swisscom Innovations > > No netname available apparently. But it is currently announced by: > source: APNIC > aut-num: AS4697 > as-name: NTTV6NET > descr: NTT Software Laboratories > > I have already contacted these people seperatly, no response as yet. > Nothing in their 6bone object seems reachable. The routing entry looks similar to the one above. Long AS path and still incomplete. > > - 3ffe:8010::/28 > ipv6-site: ICM-PL > origin: AS8664 > descr: Interdisciplinary Centre for Mathematical and > Computational Modelling > Warsaw University, Poland > > Origin is currently ICM-PL and ICP-AS. > 6bone-gw.6bone.pl is unreachable over IPv4 and IPv6 Have this route in table, seams still ok at this point. 6bone-gw.6bone.pl is reachable via IPv4. cheers, Christian <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Christian Hahn T-Systems Systems Integration T-Systems Nova GmbH Berkom IP-Technologies Goslarer Ufer 35, 10589 Berlin Fon: +49-(0)30-3497-3164 Fax: +49-(0)30-3497-3165 Cell: +49-(0)170-7641791 E-Mail: WWW: http://www.t-systems.com From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec 3 13:06:41 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:06:41 +0100 Subject: [6bone] RE: Ghost Route Hunter In-Reply-To: <834CCB6AE296D5119645000347055E5E03534343@G9JNQ.mgb01.telekom.de> Message-ID: <001101c29acc$d3bb7980$534510ac@cyan> Hahn, Ch [mailto:HahnC@t-systems.com] wrote: > > Hi Jeron, s/Jeron/Jeroen/ :) > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Jeroen Massar [mailto:jeroen@unfix.org] > Have this route in table. Quote from other reply: 8<------------ 3ffe:100::/24 now only has a short path to 3263 (TELEBIT-DK). Which was last seen at 2002-12-02 08:40. 3ffe:8010::/28 now only has a short path to 8664 (ICM-PL). Which was last seen at 2002-12-02 15:10. ------------->8 In the mean time there have been a couple of odd ones popping in and out, from the current report (2002-12-03 13:50) 8<----------- The following routes are currently ghosted and thus are not reachable from many places on the internet. - 2001:270::/35 - 1 ghosted paths - 3ffe:1400::/24 - 24 ghosted paths - 3ffe:1e00::/24 - 10 ghosted paths - 3ffe:400c::/32 - 1 ghosted paths - 3ffe:400d::/32 - 15 ghosted paths ----------->8 > > - 3ffe:1400::/24 > > netname: UNI-C > > descr: pTLA delegation for the 6bone > > remarks: *************************************** > > remarks: * * * * no longer operational * * * * > > remarks: *************************************** > > > > But still visible and ghosted and not officially retracted! > > > > Last changed line: > > changed: Anders.Bandholm@uni-c.dk 20010420 > > > > This would mean that the route would have been gone for over > > a year and > > a half! > > This route is currently announced by VERAT and Deutsche > > Telekom though. > > From my point of view it looks a little bit different. I see > this route in my table via two paths with a number of >25 > ASes in path and still incomplete. Last AS before > incompletness in both cases is 15982 (VERAT). We have a > peering with VERAT but don't receiving this route from them. > Instead we announing the route to them. > I've checked the FUBAR, STBEN-BE looking glass and saw the > route with our AS appended. Currently I have no idea how and > where in the path our AS# is appended, but I'm shure that we > are not originating this route. > > At first step I will filter this route and then lets see if > it will vanish or change its path. 3ffe:1400::/24 has 24 ghosted paths. We are thinking that there is an implemention being used somewhere that has a maximum number of ASn's per path which is now 'shortcutting' the ASpath which leaves VERAT at the front. The VERAT router is now included in the report and it doesn't have the route itself. Which clears them from blame ;) > > - 3ffe:1e00::/24 > > ipv6-site: SWISSCOM > > origin: AS3303 > > descr: Swisscom Innovations > > > > No netname available apparently. But it is currently announced by: > > source: APNIC > > aut-num: AS4697 > > as-name: NTTV6NET > > descr: NTT Software Laboratories > > > > I have already contacted these people seperatly, no response as yet. > > Nothing in their 6bone object seems reachable. > > The routing entry looks similar to the one above. Long AS > path and still incomplete. They haven't replied yet either. Going for the CC again. Would the owners of this pTLA please speak up ? > > - 3ffe:8010::/28 > > ipv6-site: ICM-PL > > origin: AS8664 > > descr: Interdisciplinary Centre for Mathematical and > > Computational Modelling > > Warsaw University, Poland > > > > Origin is currently ICM-PL and ICP-AS. > > 6bone-gw.6bone.pl is unreachable over IPv4 and IPv6 > > Have this route in table, seams still ok at this point. > 6bone-gw.6bone.pl is reachable via IPv4. See at the top. Apparently those where resurrected and the ghosts went away, fortunatly (for them ;) GReets, Jeroen From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec 3 13:33:16 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:33:16 +0100 Subject: [6bone] SWISSCOM / AS3303 / 3ffe:1e00::/24 - Is there anyone alive? Message-ID: <001201c29ad0$8a0a4880$534510ac@cyan> As I just got a nice bounce back: : host ns2.vptt.ch[193.5.238.14] said: 550 : User unknown 8<------------------- ipv6-site: SWISSCOM origin: AS3303 descr: Swisscom Innovations Ostermundigenstr. 93 3050 Bern Switzerland country: CH prefix: 3FFE:1E00::/24 application: ping gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch ------------------->8 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch AAAA record not found, server failure gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch A record not found, server failure 8<------------------- application: ping aldebaran6.ctlabs.ch ------------------->8 8<------------------- application: ping deneb6.ctlabs.ch ------------------->8 deneb6.ctlabs.ch AAAA record not found, server failure deneb6.ctlabs.ch A record not found, server failure Thus these shouldn't work either: 8<------------------- tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> router2-0.att.ch ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+ tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> vboipv6rtr.europe.digital.com DIGITAL-ETC BGP4+ ------------------->8 8<------------------- contact: HP1-6BONE contact: AF1-6BONE contact: AP148-RIPE ------------------->8 8<-------------- $ whois HP1-6BONE % RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions % No entries found in 6BONE database. $ whois AF1-6BONE % RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions person: Alberto Ferrer address: Pasaje Chacabuco 1147 address: Comodoro Rivadavia address: Chubut address: Argentina phone: +54 297 155940460 e-mail: yoco22@hotmail.com $ whois AP148-RIPE person: Andre Prim address: Swiss PTT address: Research & Development address: Technical Center address: CH-3000 Bern 29 address: Switzerland phone: +41 31 338 3437 fax-no: +41 31 338 5747 e-mail: prim_a@vptt.ch -------------->8 Only one on-site person, of which the mail doesn't bounce. But is this person alive and willing to do something about this? There is also a second object: 8<--------------- ipv6-site: SWISS-TELECOM origin: AS3303 descr: Corporate Technology Ostermundigenstr. 93 3029 Bern Switzerland country: CH prefix: 3FFE:1E00::/24 application: ping gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch application: ping aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch application: ping deneb6.vptt.ch tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch -> router2-0.att.ch ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+ contact: HP1-6BONE contact: AF1-6BONE contact: AP148-RIPE -------------->8 Same persons, different tunnels. helpdesk@ip-plus.net CC'd as they are they are for AS3303 'operational issues'. What is going to happen with this? Greets, Jeroen From bkhabs@nc.rr.com Tue Dec 3 14:06:14 2002 From: bkhabs@nc.rr.com (Brian Haberman) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:06:14 -0500 Subject: [6bone] ipv6 multicast References: <20021203092859.B30129-100000@unix.za.net> Message-ID: <3DECBA56.3080307@nc.rr.com> FF02::9 is a link-local multicast address, so it does not get propogated. Daniel Schroder wrote: > > How would ff02::9 routes get propogated > on Cisco routers then , if it does > not support multicast. I know thats not the > only way to distribute routes , but I thought > that was a feature of Ipv6 .. all nodes bieng > multicast enabled ? > > --Daniel Schroder (SysAdmin) > Unix users .. South Africa > > On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Harold de Dios Tovar wrote: > > >>Hi Lo, I supose that you know that actullay Cisco is not implementing IPv6 >>multicast but we hope that Cisco people delivered the IOS with multicast >>support the next year 2003. >> >>But you can implement multicast using a freeBSD host to router multicast >>ipv6 the tools are very stable. >> >> >>** Texto sin acentos >> >>--------------------------------- >> N.O.C & IPv6 staff working Group >>------------------------------------ >> Harold de Dios, harold@noc.udg.mx >> UdeG, Network Operation Center >> Work: 011(52)3331342232 ext.2220 >> --------------------------------- >> >> >>On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Lo Galbo Emanuele wrote: >> >> >>>Hi; >>>I am settig up an ipv6 multicast network in my lab.I have two cisco routers(3600,7200) and i thought to use freeBsd and Kame patch for the implementation. >>>What do you thik about? >>>Could you suggest me anything about? >>>Could i implement it in a differt way? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>==================================================================== >>>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE >>>This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons >>>above and may contain confidential information. If you have received >>>the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof >>>is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete >>>the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by >>>replying to MailAdmin@tilab.com. Thank you >>>==================================================================== >>>_______________________________________________ >>>6bone mailing list >>>6bone@mailman.isi.edu >>>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>6bone mailing list >>6bone@mailman.isi.edu >>http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone >> > > > _______________________________________________ > 6bone mailing list > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone > From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec 3 14:02:42 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:02:42 +0100 Subject: [6bone] RE: SWISSCOM / AS3303 / 3ffe:1e00::/24 - Is there anyone alive? In-Reply-To: <001201c29ad0$8a0a4880$534510ac@cyan> Message-ID: <001601c29ad4$a9a91550$534510ac@cyan> Jeroen Massar wrote: > helpdesk@ip-plus.net CC'd as they are they are for AS3303 'operational > issues'. And what a great response you get: > Thank you for your e-mail. > Please indicate us what you were trying to do? > Are you a customer of us? > Did you try to reach a homepage? noc@ip-plus.net CC'd... maybe they have a clue :) So SWISSCOM NOC people do you know what IPv6 is and that you have a 6bone object? Greets, Jeroen 8<------------------------- As I just got a nice bounce back: : host ns2.vptt.ch[193.5.238.14] said: 550 : User unknown 8<------------------- ipv6-site: SWISSCOM origin: AS3303 descr: Swisscom Innovations Ostermundigenstr. 93 3050 Bern Switzerland country: CH prefix: 3FFE:1E00::/24 application: ping gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch ------------------->8 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch AAAA record not found, server failure gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch A record not found, server failure 8<------------------- application: ping aldebaran6.ctlabs.ch ------------------->8 8<------------------- application: ping deneb6.ctlabs.ch ------------------->8 deneb6.ctlabs.ch AAAA record not found, server failure deneb6.ctlabs.ch A record not found, server failure Thus these shouldn't work either: 8<------------------- tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> router2-0.att.ch ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+ tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> vboipv6rtr.europe.digital.com DIGITAL-ETC BGP4+ ------------------->8 8<------------------- contact: HP1-6BONE contact: AF1-6BONE contact: AP148-RIPE ------------------->8 8<-------------- $ whois HP1-6BONE % RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions % No entries found in 6BONE database. $ whois AF1-6BONE % RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions person: Alberto Ferrer address: Pasaje Chacabuco 1147 address: Comodoro Rivadavia address: Chubut address: Argentina phone: +54 297 155940460 e-mail: yoco22@hotmail.com $ whois AP148-RIPE person: Andre Prim address: Swiss PTT address: Research & Development address: Technical Center address: CH-3000 Bern 29 address: Switzerland phone: +41 31 338 3437 fax-no: +41 31 338 5747 e-mail: prim_a@vptt.ch -------------->8 Only one on-site person, of which the mail doesn't bounce. But is this person alive and willing to do something about this? There is also a second object: 8<--------------- ipv6-site: SWISS-TELECOM origin: AS3303 descr: Corporate Technology Ostermundigenstr. 93 3029 Bern Switzerland country: CH prefix: 3FFE:1E00::/24 application: ping gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch application: ping aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch application: ping deneb6.vptt.ch tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch -> router2-0.att.ch ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+ contact: HP1-6BONE contact: AF1-6BONE contact: AP148-RIPE -------------->8 Same persons, different tunnels. helpdesk@ip-plus.net CC'd as they are they are for AS3303 'operational issues'. What is going to happen with this? Greets, Jeroen From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Tue Dec 3 14:10:55 2002 From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Tim Chown) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:10:55 +0000 Subject: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32 In-Reply-To: <20021203094818.M15927@Space.Net> References: <000101c29a50$4c9660e0$210d640a@unfix.org> <1038869154.6369.228.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> <20021203094818.M15927@Space.Net> Message-ID: <20021203141055.GY29372@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Agreed. And I have alerted Euro6IX people. Tim On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 09:48:18AM +0100, Gert Doering wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, Dec 02, 2002 at 11:45:54PM +0100, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote: > > AS65504 is a private ASN, not a reserved ASN ! > > Use of private ASN is more honest. > > Neither private nor reserved ASN should be visible globally. > > *Ever*. > > Also it's bad practice to generate AS announcements from a private ASN > that is then stripped by the upstreams with "remove-private-as", because > it creates inconsistent AS paths, and it's hard to troubleshoot who > is actually behind it if something breaks. > > Gert Doering > -- NetMaster > -- > Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 54136 (50279) > > SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 > 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 > > _______________________________________________ > 6bone mailing list > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone From Martin.Gysi@swisscom.com Tue Dec 3 14:13:46 2002 From: Martin.Gysi@swisscom.com (Martin.Gysi@swisscom.com) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:13:46 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 6bone ghost for 3FFE:1E00::/24 and nothing working found Message-ID: <05D8EC731ACCFF45A2E5A3DD97EE489B764F9B@sxmbx06.corproot.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C29AD6.318C5C1A" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C29AD6.318C5C1A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jeroen, Hirotaka and all... =20 You're quite right that none of these applications (ping...) work, = neither is the route in use. We used this address block quite a few = years ago for first tests on IPv6, but the infrastructure was shut down = after that. I am currently working on re-establishing this network, but = it takes a while to get into everything required for this. We have = bought some new servers that this time should be here to stay, and I = hope that we will be up and running by the end of this year. Please = contact me (martin.gysiATswisscom.com) or = michael.schaedlerATswisscom.com for anything regarding this, as Andr=E9 = Prim (prim_aATvptt.ch) is now longer active in this domain. By the way, = I do wonder as well who yoco22AThotmail.com might be... =20 Greets =20 Martin Gysi =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Jeroen Massar [mailto:jeroen@unfix.org]=20 Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 9:45 PM To: prim_a@vptt.ch; yoco22@hotmail.com Cc: 'David Kessens'; 'Bob Fink' Subject: 6bone ghost for 3FFE:1E00::/24 and nothing working found =20 =20 Hi, =20 While hunting for ghost routes with our new tool called Ghost Route Hunter (GRH) we found out that your prefix is ghosted. =20 The result of GRH can be found at: https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ =20 Currently your prefix is being announced by: aut-num: AS4697 =20 as-name: NTTV6NET Even though your AS is AS3303 and that is a japanese AS. =20 We also noticed quite a couple of oddities related to your 6bone object and wonder if it still exists. =20 - contact HP1-6BONE doesn't exist. - contact HP1-6BONE has a hotmail address and is mainained by = COMPENDIUM-AR. - contact AP148-RIPE is ripe. =20 - pinghosts in the 6bone registry don't resolve: application: ping gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch =20 application: ping aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch =20 application: ping deneb6.vptt.ch =20 =20 $ host -t aaaa gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer) $ host -t aaaa aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer) $ host -t aaaa deneb6.vptt.ch deneb6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer) =20 - tunnel endpoints in the 6bone registry don't resolve: tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch -> router2-0.att.ch = ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+ =20 tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> router2-0.att.ch = ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+ =20 tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> vboipv6rtr.europe.digital.com = DIGITAL-ETC BGP4+=20 =20 $ host -t a gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist, try again $ host -t aaaa gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist, try again $ host -t aaaa gdvipv6.vptt.ch gdvipv6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer) =20 And the remote sides don't even resolve either. =20 Is there any information about this situation and are you going to fix = it? =20 Greets, Jeroen =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C29AD6.318C5C1A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jeroen, Hirotaka = and all…

 

You’re quite right that none of these applications (ping…) work, neither = is the route in use. We used this address block quite a few years ago for first = tests on IPv6, but the infrastructure was shut down after that. I am currently working on re-establishing this network, but it takes a while to get = into everything required for this. We have bought some new servers that this = time should be here to stay, and I hope that we will be up and running by the end of = this year. Please contact me (martin.gysiATswisscom.com) or = michael.schaedlerATswisscom.com for anything regarding this, as Andr=E9 Prim (prim_aATvptt.ch) is now = longer active in this domain. By the way, I do wonder as well who = yoco22AThotmail.com might be…

 

Greets

 

Martin Gysi

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Jeroen Massar = [mailto:jeroen@unfix.org] =

Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 = 9:45 PM

To: prim_a@vptt.ch; yoco22@hotmail.com

Cc: 'David Kessens'; 'Bob = Fink'

Subject: 6bone ghost for 3FFE:1E00::/24 and nothing = working found

 

 

Hi,

 

While hunting for ghost routes with our new tool

called Ghost Route Hunter (GRH) we found out that

your prefix is ghosted.

 

The result of GRH can be found at: https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh= /

 

Currently your prefix is being announced by:

aut-num: AS4697=A0 =

as-name: NTTV6NET

Even though your AS is AS3303 and that is a japanese AS.

 

We also noticed quite a couple of oddities = related

to your 6bone object and wonder if it still = exists.

 

- contact HP1-6BONE doesn't = exist.

- contact HP1-6BONE has a hotmail address and = is mainained by = COMPENDIUM-AR.

- contact AP148-RIPE is = ripe.

 

- pinghosts in the = 6bone registry don't resolve:

application: ping gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch=A0 =

application: ping aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch=A0 =

application: ping deneb6.vptt.ch=A0 =

 

$ host -t aaaa gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch

gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer)

$ host -t aaaa = aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch

aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer)

$ host -t aaaa deneb6.vptt.ch

deneb6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer)

 

- tunnel endpoints in the 6bone registry don't = resolve:

tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch -> router2-0.att.ch ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+=A0 =

tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> router2-0.att.ch ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+=A0 =

tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> vboipv6rtr.europe.digital.com = DIGITAL-ETC BGP4+

 

$ host -t a = gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch

gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist, try again

$ host -t aaaa gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch

gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist, try again

$ host -t aaaa gdvipv6.vptt.ch

gdvipv6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer)

 

And the remote sides don't even resolve either.

 

Is there any information about this situation and are you going to fix = it?

 

Greets,

=A0Jeroen

 

 

 

=00 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C29AD6.318C5C1A-- --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary-- From hgoes@eu.uu.net Tue Dec 3 14:15:05 2002 From: hgoes@eu.uu.net (Hans Goes) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:15:05 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [6bone] free transit Message-ID: Hi, While we are moving from our old router (in AS1890) to our new router (in AS12702) we also limit the amount of prefixes we receive of our peers. But..... Why is almost every peer giving free transit to everyone ? Most peers of us give us more than 300 prefixes. I don't get this. If we want to move on with ipv6 everyone needs to check their access-lists/prefix-lists to limit this. We already shutdown our far away peers to south-america because they don't make sense. I guess everyone must think about this. South-America peers can connect to America providers instead of Europe... Hans WorldCom EMEA Network Operations Joan Muyskenweg 24 1096 CJ Amsterdam Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455) http://www.wcom.com/nl/ From Sascha Bielski Tue Dec 3 14:34:06 2002 From: Sascha Bielski (Sascha Bielski) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:34:06 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE Message-ID: <5783423234.20021203153406@rdns.de> Hi! just found 3ffe:3400::/24 in the pTLA list. >whois -h whois.6bone.net IPF no match for "!IPF" >sh bgp 3ffe:3400::/24 % Network not in table looks strange. any comments? ;-) -- best regards, Sascha Bielski mailto:sb@rdns.de xs26.net German Coordination phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76 email: sb@rdns.de From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec 3 14:39:37 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:39:37 +0100 Subject: [6bone] RE: 6bone ghost for 3FFE:1E00::/24 and nothing working found In-Reply-To: <05D8EC731ACCFF45A2E5A3DD97EE489B764F9B@sxmbx06.corproot.net> Message-ID: <001b01c29ad9$cf2c1a70$534510ac@cyan> Martin.Gysi@swisscom.com [mailto:Martin.Gysi@swisscom.com] wrote: > Hi Jeroen, Hirotaka and all… > You’re quite right that none of these applications (ping…) work, neither is the route in use. But it is currently lingering around the internet: 3ffe:1e00::/24 (10 ghosted paths) Do you have any indications since when the prefix announcements stopped? > We used this address block quite a few years ago for first tests on IPv6, but the > infrastructure was shut down after that. I am currently working on re-establishing this network, > but it takes a while to get into everything required for this. We have bought some new servers > that this time should be here to stay, and I hope that we will be up and running by the end of > this year. Please contact me (martin.gysiATswisscom.com) or michael.schaedlerATswisscom.com for > anything regarding this, as André Prim (prim_aATvptt.ch) is now longer active in this domain. Update this in the 6bone whois database, that's the place to look for these informations. > By the way, I do wonder as well who yoco22AThotmail.com might be… Clean up the 6bone registry, one 6bone site should be enough per prefix. And ofcourse add maintainers to them. I also hope that the helpdesk@ip-plus.net learn that they are in the whois entry for AS3303. Just in case that they don't know how that works: 8<------------- $ whois -h whois.ripe.net AS3303 aut-num: AS3303 as-name: SWISSCOM descr: Swisscom Enterprise Solutions Ltd descr: IP-Plus Internet Backbone descr: descr: ================================================================== ==== descr: descr: Peering requests peering@ip-plus.net descr: Operational issues helpdesk@ip-plus.net descr: Spam and abuse issues abuse@ip-plus.net descr: Other info http://www.ip-plus.net descr: descr: ================================================================== ==== ------------->8 Apparently, especially due to really odd mails like: > First, we are a helpdesk for IP-Plus customers. > Second, if we get mails like the one of you we need to have more information about what is meant. > Third, IPv6 is not yet running - it's IPv4. > Fourth, if you need any further information, please contact IEEE. > > Thank you and good bye. They don't care about their network and don't know who does what in their company. And why does the AS3303 object say that address is for "Operational Issues" when they can't respond in a normal fashion to outside persons. What if they are causing huge BGP leaks (or ghost paths like they are doing now) Do they reply with "You are not a customer so go away" ? This leaves to wonder... and what IEEE has to do with it :) A rather odd attitude these people have. Greets, Jeroen -----Original Message----- From: Jeroen Massar [mailto:jeroen@unfix.org] Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 9:45 PM To: prim_a@vptt.ch; yoco22@hotmail.com Cc: 'David Kessens'; 'Bob Fink' Subject: 6bone ghost for 3FFE:1E00::/24 and nothing working found Hi, While hunting for ghost routes with our new tool called Ghost Route Hunter (GRH) we found out that your prefix is ghosted. The result of GRH can be found at: https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ Currently your prefix is being announced by: aut-num: AS4697 as-name: NTTV6NET Even though your AS is AS3303 and that is a japanese AS. We also noticed quite a couple of oddities related to your 6bone object and wonder if it still exists. - contact HP1-6BONE doesn't exist. - contact HP1-6BONE has a hotmail address and is mainained by COMPENDIUM-AR. - contact AP148-RIPE is ripe. - pinghosts in the 6bone registry don't resolve: application: ping gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch application: ping aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch application: ping deneb6.vptt.ch $ host -t aaaa gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer) $ host -t aaaa aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch aldebaran6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer) $ host -t aaaa deneb6.vptt.ch deneb6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer) - tunnel endpoints in the 6bone registry don't resolve: tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch -> router2-0.att.ch ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+ tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> router2-0.att.ch ATT-LABS-EUROPE BGP4+ tunnel: IPv6 in IPv4 gdvipv6.ctlabs.ch -> vboipv6rtr.europe.digital.com DIGITAL-ETC BGP4+ $ host -t a gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist, try again $ host -t aaaa gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch gdvipv6.ctv6.vptt.ch does not exist, try again $ host -t aaaa gdvipv6.vptt.ch gdvipv6.vptt.ch does not exist (Authoritative answer) And the remote sides don't even resolve either. Is there any information about this situation and are you going to fix it? Greets, Jeroen From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Dec 3 14:42:40 2002 From: nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net (Nicolas DEFFAYET) Date: 03 Dec 2002 15:42:40 +0100 Subject: [6bone] RE: SWISSCOM / AS3303 / 3ffe:1e00::/24 - Is there anyone alive? In-Reply-To: <001601c29ad4$a9a91550$534510ac@cyan> References: <001601c29ad4$a9a91550$534510ac@cyan> Message-ID: <1038926560.655.5.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> On Tue, 2002-12-03 at 15:02, Jeroen Massar wrote: > Jeroen Massar wrote: > > > helpdesk@ip-plus.net CC'd as they are they are for AS3303 'operational > > issues'. > > And what a great response you get: > > > Thank you for your e-mail. > > Please indicate us what you were trying to do? > > Are you a customer of us? > > Did you try to reach a homepage? > > noc@ip-plus.net CC'd... maybe they have a clue :) > > So SWISSCOM NOC people do you know what IPv6 is and that you have a > 6bone object? BGP routing table entry for 2001:918::/32 Paths: (2 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table) Not advertised to any peer 8379 6830 559 3303 2001:768:e:11::1 from 2001:768:e:11::1 (195.143.108.166) (fe80::2d0:79ff:fee2:7800) Origin IGP, metric 2300, localpref 100, valid, external Community: 25358:300 25358:360 25358:410 25358:900 25358:1000 25358:3000 Last update: Mon Dec 2 22:37:48 2002 1752 6830 559 3303 3ffe:4013:0:1::1 from 3ffe:4013:0:1::1 (213.91.4.3) (fe80::d55b:403) Origin IGP, metric 2200, localpref 100, valid, internal, best Community: 25358:300 25358:360 25358:410 25358:900 25358:1000 25358:3000 Last update: Mon Dec 2 01:02:13 2002 AS3303 announce a sTLA (2001:918::/32). Best Regards, -- Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/ FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/ From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec 3 14:55:09 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:55:09 +0100 Subject: [6bone] RE: SWISSCOM / AS3303 / 3ffe:1e00::/24 - Is thereanyone alive? In-Reply-To: <1038926560.655.5.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> Message-ID: <002201c29adb$fa3444c0$534510ac@cyan> Nicolas DEFFAYET [mailto:nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net] wrote: > On Tue, 2002-12-03 at 15:02, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > Jeroen Massar wrote: > > > > > helpdesk@ip-plus.net CC'd as they are they are for AS3303 > 'operational > > > issues'. > > > > And what a great response you get: > > > > > Thank you for your e-mail. > > > Please indicate us what you were trying to do? > > > Are you a customer of us? > > > Did you try to reach a homepage? > > > > noc@ip-plus.net CC'd... maybe they have a clue :) > > > > So SWISSCOM NOC people do you know what IPv6 is and that you have a > > 6bone object? > > BGP routing table entry for 2001:918::/32 > Paths: (2 available, best #2, table Default-IP-Routing-Table) > Not advertised to any peer > 8379 6830 559 3303 > 2001:768:e:11::1 from 2001:768:e:11::1 (195.143.108.166) > (fe80::2d0:79ff:fee2:7800) > Origin IGP, metric 2300, localpref 100, valid, external > Community: 25358:300 25358:360 25358:410 25358:900 25358:1000 > 25358:3000 > Last update: Mon Dec 2 22:37:48 2002 > > 1752 6830 559 3303 > 3ffe:4013:0:1::1 from 3ffe:4013:0:1::1 (213.91.4.3) > (fe80::d55b:403) > Origin IGP, metric 2200, localpref 100, valid, internal, best > Community: 25358:300 25358:360 25358:410 25358:900 25358:1000 > 25358:3000 > Last update: Mon Dec 2 01:02:13 2002 > > AS3303 announce a sTLA (2001:918::/32). And they don't know about it... GREAT...... inet6num: 2001:0918::/32 netname: CH-UNISOURCE-20020927 descr: Provider Local Registry descr: Swisscom IP-PLus Internet Services Also announcing/having an sTLA doesn't allow one to neglect their 6bone prefix. Could somebody at Swisscom/IP-Plus pass a cluestick to their helpdesk and train them to the fact that IPv6 exists and what they can and should do about it etc? Greets, Jeroen From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec 3 14:57:18 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:57:18 +0100 Subject: [6bone] free transit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002301c29adc$47222d60$534510ac@cyan> Hans Goes wrote: > Hi, > > While we are moving from our old router (in AS1890) to our > new router (in > AS12702) we also limit the amount of prefixes we receive of our peers. > > But..... Why is almost every peer giving free transit to everyone ? > > Most peers of us give us more than 300 prefixes. I don't get this. That's the way of the 6bone. RIR space doesn't have this problem that much. And that 300 number are all the prefixes currently in the routing table :) > If we want to move on with ipv6 everyone needs to check their > access-lists/prefix-lists to limit this. You are probably peering with all the other TLA's and they, like you, want connectivity to the rest of the IPv6 internet as there are only a few real transit-only providers most people chose to do free transit and indeed this is not a good thing. > We already shutdown our far away peers to south-america > because they don't make sense. I guess everyone must think about this. > South-America peers can connect to America providers instead > of Europe... Indeed, unless you have a big worldwide IPv6 network like some lucky people have. You might want to check up on: http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt and http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt Greets, Jeroen From JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" Message-ID: <090501c29add$664f2cf0$1a01a8c0@consulintel.es> I'm not sure if is the same people, but as I know Gigabell (IPF) was acquired by Jippii. Regards, Jordi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sascha Bielski" To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu> Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 3:34 PM Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE > Hi! > > just found 3ffe:3400::/24 in the pTLA list. > > >whois -h whois.6bone.net IPF > > no match for "!IPF" > > >sh bgp 3ffe:3400::/24 > % Network not in table > > looks strange. any comments? ;-) > > -- > best regards, > Sascha Bielski mailto:sb@rdns.de > xs26.net German Coordination > phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76 > email: sb@rdns.de > > _______________________________________________ > 6bone mailing list > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone > *********************************** Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit 12-14 May 2003 - Soon on line at: http://www.ipv6-es.com Interested in participating or sponsoring ? Contact us at ipv6@consulintel.es From bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net Tue Dec 3 15:02:59 2002 From: bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net (Stephane Bortzmeyer) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:02:59 +0100 Subject: [6bone] free transit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021203150259.GA10309@nic.fr> On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 02:15:05PM +0000, Hans Goes wrote a message of 32 lines which said: > But..... Why is almost every peer giving free transit to everyone ? This is the IPv6 world (or more precisely the 6bone world but in practice, it is the same thing). It does not work like the ordinary Internet. Wether it is a good thing (like Usenet, IPv6 people peer with anybody and gratis) or a bad thing (the routing is a mess), I don't know. See Internet-Draft draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt. > Most peers of us give us more than 300 prefixes. The full routing table. From hgoes@eu.uu.net Tue Dec 3 15:11:38 2002 From: hgoes@eu.uu.net (Hans Goes) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:11:38 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [6bone] free transit Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote: > Indeed, unless you have a big worldwide IPv6 network like some lucky > people have. > You might want to check up on: > http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt > and > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt Ok.... But do we accept this way of routing ? I think it's a bad thing. In this situation traffic can route the whole world only because someone build a tunnel somewhere. A tunnel to Mexico can result in a shorter AS path but is too slow for real use.... Hans Goes WorldCom EMEA Network Operations Joan Muyskenweg 24 1096 CJ Amsterdam Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455) V-Net: 711 2428 http://www.wcom.com/nl/ From czmok@gatel.net Tue Dec 3 15:27:33 2002 From: czmok@gatel.net (Jan Czmok) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:27:33 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE In-Reply-To: <5783423234.20021203153406@rdns.de> References: <5783423234.20021203153406@rdns.de> Message-ID: <20021203152733.GB5005@gollum.gatel.net> Sascha Bielski (sb@rdns.de) wrote: > Hi! > > just found 3ffe:3400::/24 in the pTLA list. > > >whois -h whois.6bone.net IPF > > no match for "!IPF" > > >sh bgp 3ffe:3400::/24 > % Network not in table > > looks strange. any comments? ;-) > > -- > best regards, > Sascha Bielski mailto:sb@rdns.de > xs26.net German Coordination > phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76 > email: sb@rdns.de > IPF was sold to Jippii. Jippii went bankrupt. Please see archives! I was maintainer for the ipv6 activity there, now at GATEL (yes, also ipv6) --jan -- Jan Ahrent Czmok - Senior Network Engineer - Access Networks Global Access Telecommunications, Inc. - Stephanstr. 3 - 60313 Frankfurt voice: +49 69 299896-35 - fax: +49 69 299896-66 - email: czmok@gatel.de From Sascha Bielski Tue Dec 3 15:29:58 2002 From: Sascha Bielski (Sascha Bielski) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:29:58 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE In-Reply-To: <20021203152733.GB5005@gollum.gatel.net> References: <5783423234.20021203153406@rdns.de> <20021203152733.GB5005@gollum.gatel.net> Message-ID: <22786775671.20021203162958@rdns.de> Dear Jan Czmok, > IPF was sold to Jippii. Jippii went bankrupt. Please see archives! > I was maintainer for the ipv6 activity there, now at GATEL (yes, also > ipv6) why did nobody return the address space? just wondering :-) greets, sb -- best regards, Sascha Bielski mailto:sb@rdns.de xs26.net German Coordination phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76 email: sb@rdns.de From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec 3 15:36:07 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:36:07 +0100 Subject: [6bone] free transit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c29ae1$b3871a10$534510ac@cyan> Hans Goes [mailto:hans.goes@wcom.com] wrote: > On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > > Indeed, unless you have a big worldwide IPv6 network like some lucky > > people have. > > You might want to check up on: > > http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt > > and > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt > > Ok.... But do we accept this way of routing ? I think it's a bad thing. > > In this situation traffic can route the whole world only because someone > build a tunnel somewhere. > > A tunnel to Mexico can result in a shorter AS path but is too slow for > real use.... Read the first one and especially the point about 'bad tunnels' A tunnel to Mexico from The Netherlands would surely qualify for that ;) Unless the cable over which the IPv4 packets flow is completely yours one could argue that it is kind of a native then. IMHO it is in that case. One only needs to replace the hardware on both ends to do native IPv6. And that is not always something that can be done due to organisational issues. "Dear bank I need a new router... I want to do IPv6", they'll see you coming... Greets, Jeroen From mohacsi@niif.hu Tue Dec 3 15:46:23 2002 From: mohacsi@niif.hu (Janos Mohacsi) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:46:23 +0100 (CET) Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE In-Reply-To: <5783423234.20021203153406@rdns.de> Message-ID: <20021203164410.G4046-100000@evil.ki.iif.hu> On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Sascha Bielski wrote: > Hi! > > just found 3ffe:3400::/24 in the pTLA list. > > >whois -h whois.6bone.net IPF > > no match for "!IPF" > > >sh bgp 3ffe:3400::/24 > % Network not in table Does not mean anything, that 3ffe:3400::/24 is not on the BGP table. Probably they or you don't have global connectivity to 6bone... Best Regards, Janos Mohacsi From Sascha Bielski Tue Dec 3 15:49:10 2002 From: Sascha Bielski (Sascha Bielski) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:49:10 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE In-Reply-To: <20021203164410.G4046-100000@evil.ki.iif.hu> References: <20021203164410.G4046-100000@evil.ki.iif.hu> Message-ID: <36787927296.20021203164910@rdns.de> Dear Janos Mohacsi, > Does not mean anything, that 3ffe:3400::/24 is not on the BGP table. > Probably they or you don't have global connectivity to 6bone... probably I have more than 3 fullfeeds. probably they don't exist anymore. ;-) I just wondered why nobody gave it back to Bill. sb -- best regards, Sascha Bielski mailto:sb@rdns.de xs26.net German Coordination phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76 email: sb@rdns.de From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Tue Dec 3 15:51:36 2002 From: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:51:36 -0800 Subject: [6bone] free transit Message-ID: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E505@server2000> Hans, > Hans Goes wrote: > Ok.... But do we accept this way of routing ? I think it's > a bad thing. In this situation traffic can route the whole > world only because someone build a tunnel somewhere. > A tunnel to Mexico can result in a shorter AS path but is > too slow for real use.... This is yesterday's news. The bottom line is that you don't have much of a choice today. In the 6bone meeting in Atlanta I presented some slides related to this. http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/ietf55ilj.pdf http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/ipv6mh/ietf55ilj.ppt As far as I have heard, it all comes to money. Among the three models described, it is commonly admitted that v4 tier-1 ISPs such as the one you are working for will eventually form the IPv6 DFZ and become picky about who they peer with. This requires that *you* build the IPv6 backbone that does not exist yet :-) Michel. From pim@ipng.nl Tue Dec 3 15:50:16 2002 From: pim@ipng.nl (Pim van Pelt) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:50:16 +0100 Subject: [6bone] free transit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021203155016.GA25110@bfib.colo.bit.nl> On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 03:11:38PM +0000, Hans Goes wrote: | On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote: | | > Indeed, unless you have a big worldwide IPv6 network like some lucky | > people have. | > You might want to check up on: | > http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt | > and | > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt | | | Ok.... But do we accept this way of routing ? I think it's a bad thing. You should not, in my opinion. One thing you can do, is filter inboud announcements to fit into this regexp: ^([0-9]+)$ This will accept paths of exactly one AS, effectively eliminating all the stuff you get from your peers. If you don't want to have all the prefixes, the best thing you can do is request that your peer only send their and their customers routes (normally, this would be only one prefix). If they do not honor your request, I think you should remove peering. By the way, at AMS-IX (where you recently migrated from 1890 to 12702 also), I don't see heavy transit either. Almost all of my peers send me only their own prefixes. I myself send all tunneled peers only the prefixes I learn at AMS-IX. I think it's also time to stop building far-away tunnels. A rule of thumb might be: only tunnel to peering ASes. Making a tunnel from Amsterdam to California via 2 or 3 transit ASes is not what you want. The traffic will get there sooner or later without you (note: not you personally :) making an explicit tunnel to them. We might also want to start accepting only 2001:400::/23 prefixes from our ARIN peers, and 2001:200::/23 from our APNIC. This way, you cannot 'go to europe via america' in 2001::/16 land. I'm sorry to say that this will not hold for 6BONE, as these prefixes are allocated sequentially and not from supernets. Hope this helps. groet, Pim -- ---------- - - - - -+- - - - - ---------- Pim van Pelt Email: pim@ipng.nl http://www.ipng.nl/ IPv6 Deployment ----------------------------------------------- From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Dec 3 15:58:03 2002 From: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:58:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [6bone] free transit In-Reply-To: from Hans Goes at "Dec 3, 2 03:11:38 pm" Message-ID: <200212031558.gB3Fw3M05840@boreas.isi.edu> we accept this way of routing as a bootstrap/transitory measure. or not. the nifty thing about Exterior Gateway Protocols e.g. BGP is that sites are able to express what ever policies they wish at their routing "edges" - If you think this is "a bad thing", then you are free to reject those paths/prefixes you find distasteful at your edges. % On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote: % % > Indeed, unless you have a big worldwide IPv6 network like some lucky % > people have. % > You might want to check up on: % > http://ip6.de.easynet.net/ipv6-minimum-peering.txt % > and % > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt % % % Ok.... But do we accept this way of routing ? I think it's a bad thing. % % In this situation traffic can route the whole world only because someone % build a tunnel somewhere. % % A tunnel to Mexico can result in a shorter AS path but is too slow for % real use.... % % % % Hans Goes % % WorldCom % EMEA Network Operations % Joan Muyskenweg 24 % 1096 CJ Amsterdam % % Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455) % V-Net: 711 2428 % http://www.wcom.com/nl/ % % % _______________________________________________ % 6bone mailing list % 6bone@mailman.isi.edu % http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone % -- --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From czmok@gatel.net Tue Dec 3 16:07:46 2002 From: czmok@gatel.net (Jan Czmok) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:07:46 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE In-Reply-To: <22786775671.20021203162958@rdns.de> References: <5783423234.20021203153406@rdns.de> <20021203152733.GB5005@gollum.gatel.net> <22786775671.20021203162958@rdns.de> Message-ID: <20021203160746.GD5005@gollum.gatel.net> Sascha Bielski (sb@rdns.de) wrote: > Dear Jan Czmok, > > > IPF was sold to Jippii. Jippii went bankrupt. Please see archives! > > I was maintainer for the ipv6 activity there, now at GATEL (yes, also > > ipv6) > > why did nobody return the address space? just wondering :-) > > greets, > sb because who should return it ? noone is working there anymore and i noted to the list (afaik) that the space can be reclaimed. --jan -- Jan Ahrent Czmok - Senior Network Engineer - Access Networks Global Access Telecommunications, Inc. - Stephanstr. 3 - 60313 Frankfurt voice: +49 69 299896-35 - fax: +49 69 299896-66 - email: czmok@gatel.de From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Dec 3 17:14:51 2002 From: pekkas@netcore.fi (Pekka Savola) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 19:14:51 +0200 (EET) Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE In-Reply-To: <22786775671.20021203162958@rdns.de> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Sascha Bielski wrote: > > IPF was sold to Jippii. Jippii went bankrupt. Please see archives! > > I was maintainer for the ipv6 activity there, now at GATEL (yes, also > > ipv6) > > why did nobody return the address space? just wondering :-) "turn off the lights and return the 6bone address space" Whew.. In real life, I don't think I would have been able to say that in one sentence (at least with a straight face). A better question would be, why would nobody _reclaim_ the address space after N months of inactivity etc... -- Pekka Savola "Tell me of difficulties surmounted, Netcore Oy not those you stumble over and fall" Systems. Networks. Security. -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords From czmok@gatel.net Tue Dec 3 17:38:50 2002 From: czmok@gatel.net (Jan Czmok) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:38:50 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE In-Reply-To: References: <22786775671.20021203162958@rdns.de> Message-ID: <20021203173850.GA7170@gollum.gatel.net> Pekka Savola (pekkas@netcore.fi) wrote: > On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Sascha Bielski wrote: > > > IPF was sold to Jippii. Jippii went bankrupt. Please see archives! > > > I was maintainer for the ipv6 activity there, now at GATEL (yes, also > > > ipv6) > > > > why did nobody return the address space? just wondering :-) > > "turn off the lights and return the 6bone address space" i did that ... > > Whew.. In real life, I don't think I would have been able to say that in > one sentence (at least with a straight face). me 2. > > A better question would be, why would nobody _reclaim_ the address > space after N months of inactivity etc... that's the _more interesting_ question. --jan -- Jan Ahrent Czmok - Senior Network Engineer - Access Networks Global Access Telecommunications, Inc. - Stephanstr. 3 - 60313 Frankfurt voice: +49 69 299896-35 - fax: +49 69 299896-66 - email: czmok@gatel.de From pim@ipng.nl Tue Dec 3 19:14:31 2002 From: pim@ipng.nl (Pim van Pelt) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 20:14:31 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE In-Reply-To: References: <22786775671.20021203162958@rdns.de> Message-ID: <20021203191431.GA29242@bfib.colo.bit.nl> | A better question would be, why would nobody _reclaim_ the address | space after N months of inactivity etc... Perhaps we should add a point to RFC2772 that the pTLA should remain advertised (under normal conditions etc etc) at all times, and if the pTLA remains abandonned, that the 6BONE community may reclaim the allocation and return it to 'the registry'. I think there's quite some (nearly) dead pTLA deployments out there. A periodic check might not be that bad either. There's plenty of public LGs around to confirm the absence of a prefix. Also, RIPE has just started the RISv6 project (I was their first peer, awww :) and we might be able to make use of that also, to detect things. groet, Pim -- ---------- - - - - -+- - - - - ---------- Pim van Pelt Email: pim@ipng.nl http://www.ipng.nl/ IPv6 Deployment ----------------------------------------------- From gert@space.net Tue Dec 3 21:40:28 2002 From: gert@space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 22:40:28 +0100 Subject: [6bone] free transit In-Reply-To: ; from hgoes@eu.uu.net on Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 03:11:38PM +0000 References: Message-ID: <20021203224028.F15927@Space.Net> Hi, On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 03:11:38PM +0000, Hans Goes wrote: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-v6ops-6bone-mess-01.txt > > Ok.... But do we accept this way of routing ? I think it's a bad thing. That's what 6bone-mess is all about. :-) > In this situation traffic can route the whole world only because someone > build a tunnel somewhere. > > A tunnel to Mexico can result in a shorter AS path but is too slow for > real use.... Yes. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 54136 (50279) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 From fink@es.net Wed Dec 4 01:44:41 2002 From: fink@es.net (Bob Fink) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 17:44:41 -0800 Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE In-Reply-To: <20021203191431.GA29242@bfib.colo.bit.nl> References: <22786775671.20021203162958@rdns.de> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021203172046.032db478@imap2.es.net> Pim, At 08:14 PM 12/3/2002 +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote: >| A better question would be, why would nobody _reclaim_ the address >| space after N months of inactivity etc... > >Perhaps we should add a point to RFC2772 that the pTLA should remain >advertised (under normal conditions etc etc) at all times, and if the >pTLA remains abandonned, that the 6BONE community may reclaim the >allocation and return it to 'the registry'. I agree that if a pTLA is unused for some period of time should be returned to the pool. What the exact wording and length of out of service time should be, I haven't formed an exact opinion on yet. >I think there's quite some (nearly) dead pTLA deployments out there. > >A periodic check might not be that bad either. There's plenty of >public LGs around to confirm the absence of a prefix. Also, RIPE >has just started the RISv6 project (I was their first peer, awww :) >and we might be able to make use of that also, to detect things. It would be great to have some automatically reporting tool that we could use to evaluate what is no longer in use. I am starting to request pTLA holders that I become aware are obviously not using their pTLA for longer periods of time (months) to give back their pTLA and reapply for a new one if they want another in the future (i.e., not just hold on until they change their plans). Sounds like 3FFE:3400::/24 is a strong candidate to be reclaimed. I will post an intent to reclaim this pTLA with a two week notice. Thanks, Bob From fink@es.net Wed Dec 4 01:46:11 2002 From: fink@es.net (Bob Fink) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 17:46:11 -0800 Subject: [6bone] intent to reclaim pTLA 3FFE:3400::/24 (IPF/DE), comment closes 17 Dec 02 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021203173618.032dc3b0@imap2.es.net> This is a notice of intent to reclaim the pTLA 3FFE:3400::/24. It has been stated that 3FFE::/24 has been unused for a long period and that the original organization, IPF, may not exist any more. I cannot find any current references to IPF in the 6bone registry. This pTLA will be returned to the pool, pending comments to me or the list, at the end of two weeks. Please reply to me or the list prior to close of business 17 December 2002. Thanks, Bob From hgoes@eu.uu.net Wed Dec 4 07:52:45 2002 From: hgoes@eu.uu.net (Hans Goes) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 07:52:45 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [6bone] free transit Message-ID: Hi Pim, > This will accept paths of exactly one AS, effectively eliminating all > the stuff you get from your peers. If you don't want to have all the > prefixes, the best thing you can do is request that your peer only send > their and their customers routes (normally, this would be only one prefix). Agree.. This is what we do. We use prefix-lists on the sessions and that works fine. Had a discussion with Tiscali about this. Only negative thing is when a customers expands we need to change the prefix-list. > If they do not honor your request, I think you should remove peering. By > the way, at AMS-IX (where you recently migrated from 1890 to 12702 > also), I don't see heavy transit either. Almost all of my peers send me > only their own prefixes. I myself send all tunneled peers only the > prefixes I learn at AMS-IX. AMS-IX is properly configured ! All peers know what they are doing. With tunnels it's mostly totally different. > I think it's also time to stop building far-away tunnels. A rule of > thumb might be: only tunnel to peering ASes. Making a tunnel from > Amsterdam to California via 2 or 3 transit ASes is not what you want. > The traffic will get there sooner or later without you (note: not you > personally :) making an explicit tunnel to them. Agree... But when are others killing tunnels ? A lot of users of the 6bone were trying to get as many tunnels as possible. Totally nonsense ! > We might also want to start accepting only 2001:400::/23 prefixes from > our ARIN peers, and 2001:200::/23 from our APNIC. This way, you cannot > 'go to europe via america' in 2001::/16 land. I'm sorry to say that this > will not hold for 6BONE, as these prefixes are allocated sequentially > and not from supernets. Good idea... Hans Goes WorldCom EMEA Network Operations Joan Muyskenweg 24 1096 CJ Amsterdam Tel: +31 20 7112428 (Fax: 2455) V-Net: 711 2428 http://www.wcom.com/nl/ From czmok@gatel.net Wed Dec 4 11:54:31 2002 From: czmok@gatel.net (Jan Czmok) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:54:31 +0100 Subject: [6bone] intent to reclaim pTLA 3FFE:3400::/24 (IPF/DE), comment closes 17 Dec 02 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021203173618.032dc3b0@imap2.es.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021203173618.032dc3b0@imap2.es.net> Message-ID: <20021204115431.GA17759@gollum.gatel.net> Bob Fink (fink@es.net) wrote: > This is a notice of intent to reclaim the pTLA 3FFE:3400::/24. > > It has been stated that 3FFE::/24 has been unused for a long period and > that the original organization, IPF, may not exist any more. I cannot find > any current references to IPF in the 6bone registry. Accepted as _former_ MNTer fo the Prefix. > > This pTLA will be returned to the pool, pending comments to me or the list, > at the end of two weeks. Please reply to me or the list prior to close of > business 17 December 2002. > No Comments. --jan -- Jan Ahrent Czmok - Senior Network Engineer - Access Networks Global Access Telecommunications, Inc. - Stephanstr. 3 - 60313 Frankfurt voice: +49 69 299896-35 - fax: +49 69 299896-66 - email: czmok@gatel.de From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Dec 4 11:55:59 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:55:59 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021203172046.032db478@imap2.es.net> Message-ID: <000701c29b8c$1e50be50$210d640a@unfix.org> Bob Fink wrote: > At 08:14 PM 12/3/2002 +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote: > >I think there's quite some (nearly) dead pTLA deployments out there. > > > >A periodic check might not be that bad either. There's plenty of > >public LGs around to confirm the absence of a prefix. Also, RIPE > >has just started the RISv6 project (I was their first peer, awww :) > >and we might be able to make use of that also, to detect things. > > It would be great to have some automatically reporting tool > that we could > use to evaluate what is no longer in use. I was already collecting prefixes from the bgp dumps I got for the Ghost Route Hunter* project. I'll grab the current pTLA list and make a report page for comparing availability per pTLA along with their origin AS. This also allows us to easily verify if the 6bone object for that prefix corresponds with the AS it originaties from. Ghost routes and misannouncements in there will also pop up :) Notez bien that Gert Doering probably has a much bigger archive due to his IPv6 routing overview's (www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/) And that the ASPath tool can also quite clearly show which TLA's can be found where. The RISv6 tool unfortunatly only carries BGP entries from native peers. So most parts of the 6bone space are probably not visible there. RIS is more extensive than any other routing project though and they keep histories and other relevant information like updates. So it could proof very usefull if many ISP's hook up with it. 8<---------------- Found 19743 no, 0 short, 21 long ghosts. Longest: 31 Prefixes: 436 --------------->8 The prefixes there also hold /48's and others which are localy visible, but I'll filter those out for the pTLA list ofcourse. The first line shows ASpaths btw. Doing a rough calculation this would mean I got 45 paths for every prefix. Skimming through it quickly reveals that most TLA's have about 65 paths available. Spread over 9 BGP feeds, more are always welcome ofcourse. > I am starting to request pTLA holders that I become aware are > obviously not > using their pTLA for longer periods of time (months) to give > back their > pTLA and reapply for a new one if they want another in the > future (i.e., > not just hold on until they change their plans). > > Sounds like 3FFE:3400::/24 is a strong candidate to be > reclaimed. I will > post an intent to reclaim this pTLA with a two week notice. Reclaiming is good. This will limit problems and we will be able to identify them much better. But the availability of an AS doesn't have to mean that the prefixes are available. DIGITAL-CA for example _was_ only available to the 'old' prefixes. eg 3ffe:3000::/24 (AMS-IX) could reach it, or better said they knew where to find AMS-IX, but they didn't knew the way back to RIR space. This can be seen in the https://www.sixxs.net/misc/latency/ graphs looking at the host.ipv6.pa-x.dec.com router. But apparently it started pinging for Cybernet, Concepts and Intouch now... so the upgrade worked out as they told me when I queried them. Also IMHO 6bone should move to the RIR's ASAP. (RIR space are paying people, no free transit -> better stability blablabla, see those other threads :) Awareness is a good thing. Greets, Jeroen * = https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ From gert@space.net Wed Dec 4 14:00:39 2002 From: gert@space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:00:39 +0100 Subject: [6bone] free transit In-Reply-To: ; from hgoes@eu.uu.net on Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:52:45AM +0000 References: Message-ID: <20021204150039.Y15927@Space.Net> Hi, On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:52:45AM +0000, Hans Goes wrote: [..] > > I think it's also time to stop building far-away tunnels. A rule of > > thumb might be: only tunnel to peering ASes. Making a tunnel from > > Amsterdam to California via 2 or 3 transit ASes is not what you want. > > The traffic will get there sooner or later without you (note: not you > > personally :) making an explicit tunnel to them. > > Agree... But when are others killing tunnels ? A lot of users of the 6bone > were trying to get as many tunnels as possible. Totally nonsense ! Well - in the "early stages", this was about the only way to get connectivity anywhere. Build up manymanymany tunnels, and give everybody free transit everywhere. I still claim that this was a necessary part of the IPv6 bootstrap :-) - but I also agree that this time is over now, and people should concentrate on optimizing their links. Setup *peerings* (not "transit relationships"), and try to build as much native links as possible, only falling back to tunnels if unavoidable, and *if* tunnels are used, watch out that you don't announce BGP routes belonging to an unsuspecting third party... Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 54136 (50279) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 From gert@space.net Wed Dec 4 15:48:34 2002 From: gert@space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:48:34 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Re: Ghost Route Hunter In-Reply-To: <001101c29acc$d3bb7980$534510ac@cyan>; from jeroen@unfix.org on Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 02:06:41PM +0100 References: <834CCB6AE296D5119645000347055E5E03534343@G9JNQ.mgb01.telekom.de> <001101c29acc$d3bb7980$534510ac@cyan> Message-ID: <20021204164834.Q15927@Space.Net> Hi, On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 02:06:41PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote: > In the mean time there have been a couple of odd ones popping in and > out, from the current report (2002-12-03 13:50) > 8<----------- > The following routes are currently ghosted and thus are not reachable > from many places on the internet. > - 2001:270::/35 - 1 ghosted paths > - 3ffe:1400::/24 - 24 ghosted paths > - 3ffe:1e00::/24 - 10 ghosted paths > - 3ffe:400c::/32 - 1 ghosted paths > - 3ffe:400d::/32 - 15 ghosted paths > ----------->8 See my last comment - "spurious ghosts" are very likely to be normal BGP withdrawal symptoms. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 54136 (50279) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 From fink@es.net Wed Dec 4 16:00:21 2002 From: fink@es.net (Bob Fink) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 08:00:21 -0800 Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE In-Reply-To: <000701c29b8c$1e50be50$210d640a@unfix.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021203172046.032db478@imap2.es.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021204075917.032f2678@imap2.es.net> Jeroen, Thanks for your help on this. Bob === At 12:55 PM 12/4/2002 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote: >Bob Fink wrote: > > > At 08:14 PM 12/3/2002 +0100, Pim van Pelt wrote: > > > >I think there's quite some (nearly) dead pTLA deployments out there. > > > > > >A periodic check might not be that bad either. There's plenty of > > >public LGs around to confirm the absence of a prefix. Also, RIPE > > >has just started the RISv6 project (I was their first peer, awww :) > > >and we might be able to make use of that also, to detect things. > > > > It would be great to have some automatically reporting tool > > that we could > > use to evaluate what is no longer in use. > >I was already collecting prefixes from the bgp dumps I got for the >Ghost Route Hunter* project. I'll grab the current pTLA list and >make a report page for comparing availability per pTLA along with >their origin AS. This also allows us to easily verify if the 6bone >object for that prefix corresponds with the AS it originaties from. >Ghost routes and misannouncements in there will also pop up :) > >Notez bien that Gert Doering probably has a much bigger archive >due to his IPv6 routing overview's (www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/) >And that the ASPath tool can also quite clearly show which TLA's >can be found where. > >The RISv6 tool unfortunatly only carries BGP entries from native peers. >So most parts of the 6bone space are probably not visible there. RIS is >more extensive than any other routing project though >and they keep histories and other relevant information like updates. >So it could proof very usefull if many ISP's hook up with it. > >8<---------------- >Found 19743 no, 0 short, 21 long ghosts. >Longest: 31 >Prefixes: 436 >--------------->8 >The prefixes there also hold /48's and others which are localy >visible, but I'll filter those out for the pTLA list ofcourse. >The first line shows ASpaths btw. Doing a rough calculation >this would mean I got 45 paths for every prefix. Skimming through >it quickly reveals that most TLA's have about 65 paths available. >Spread over 9 BGP feeds, more are always welcome ofcourse. > > > I am starting to request pTLA holders that I become aware are > > obviously not > > using their pTLA for longer periods of time (months) to give > > back their > > pTLA and reapply for a new one if they want another in the > > future (i.e., > > not just hold on until they change their plans). > > > > Sounds like 3FFE:3400::/24 is a strong candidate to be > > reclaimed. I will > > post an intent to reclaim this pTLA with a two week notice. > >Reclaiming is good. This will limit problems and we will be able >to identify them much better. But the availability of an AS >doesn't have to mean that the prefixes are available. >DIGITAL-CA for example _was_ only available to the 'old' prefixes. >eg 3ffe:3000::/24 (AMS-IX) could reach it, or better said they >knew where to find AMS-IX, but they didn't knew the way back to RIR >space. This can be seen in the https://www.sixxs.net/misc/latency/ >graphs looking at the host.ipv6.pa-x.dec.com router. >But apparently it started pinging for Cybernet, Concepts and Intouch >now... so the upgrade worked out as they told me when I queried them. > >Also IMHO 6bone should move to the RIR's ASAP. >(RIR space are paying people, no free transit -> better stability >blablabla, see those other threads :) > >Awareness is a good thing. > >Greets, > Jeroen > >* = https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ > >_______________________________________________ >6bone mailing list >6bone@mailman.isi.edu >http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone From fink@es.net Wed Dec 4 16:57:26 2002 From: fink@es.net (Bob Fink) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 08:57:26 -0800 Subject: [6bone] pTLA 3FFE:1E00::/24 reclaimed to pool Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021204084838.028f13b0@imap2.es.net> 6bone Folk, The pTLA 3FFE:1E00::/24 has been returned voluntarily to the 6bone address pool by Martin Gysi of SWISSCOM. This pTLA had not been used in quite a while and although Swisscom may soon require another pTLA, they will reapply for a /32 when they are ready to do so. Thanks to Martin and Swisscom for voluntarily doing this. I will take Paul Aitken's suggestion and return this to the bottom of the pool so new pTLA allocations will not use it ever (or at least for quite a while) to avoid possible filter problems. Note that this is a /24, and thus is already in a pool that no new allocations are coming from. Thanks, Bob From Sascha Bielski Wed Dec 4 18:12:07 2002 From: Sascha Bielski (Sascha Bielski) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:12:07 +0100 Subject: [6bone] pTLA 3FFE:1E00::/24 reclaimed to pool In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021204084838.028f13b0@imap2.es.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021204084838.028f13b0@imap2.es.net> Message-ID: <138882904296.20021204191207@rdns.de> Dear Bob Fink, > I will take Paul Aitken's suggestion and return this to the bottom of the > pool so new pTLA allocations will not use it ever (or at least for quite a > while) to avoid possible filter problems. Note that this is a /24, and thus > is already in a pool that no new allocations are coming from. maybe we should recycle that /24 in some months. maybe a _big_ provider can use a /24 in some time (i talk about a _big_ provider, nothing like a small ISP). we should not waste that space. just my 2 euro-cents :) sb -- best regards, Sascha Bielski mailto:sb@rdns.de xs26.net German Coordination phone: +49 (0) 174 / 432 93 76 email: sb@rdns.de From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Dec 4 19:06:17 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 20:06:17 +0100 Subject: [6bone] RE: Ghost Route Hunter In-Reply-To: <20021204164834.Q15927@Space.Net> Message-ID: <000901c29bc8$39fe5950$210d640a@unfix.org> Gert Doering [mailto:gert@space.net] wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 02:06:41PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > In the mean time there have been a couple of odd ones popping in and > > out, from the current report (2002-12-03 13:50) > > 8<----------- > > The following routes are currently ghosted and thus are not > reachable > > from many places on the internet. > > - 2001:270::/35 - 1 ghosted paths > > - 3ffe:1400::/24 - 24 ghosted paths > > - 3ffe:1e00::/24 - 10 ghosted paths > > - 3ffe:400c::/32 - 1 ghosted paths > > - 3ffe:400d::/32 - 15 ghosted paths > > ----------->8 > > See my last comment - "spurious ghosts" are very likely to be normal > BGP withdrawal symptoms. Indeed. The good point is that we see them and can now track how much time it takes for them to go away again. Maybe we can spot which systems cause the huge amount of delay taken. Hmmmmm I don't see any ghosts any more... :) Greets, Jeroen From gert@space.net Wed Dec 4 19:23:13 2002 From: gert@space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 20:23:13 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Re: Ghost Route Hunter In-Reply-To: <000901c29bc8$39fe5950$210d640a@unfix.org>; from jeroen@unfix.org on Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 08:06:17PM +0100 References: <20021204164834.Q15927@Space.Net> <000901c29bc8$39fe5950$210d640a@unfix.org> Message-ID: <20021204202313.X15927@Space.Net> hi, On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 08:06:17PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote: > Hmmmmm I don't see any ghosts any more... :) So you've already succeeded :-) - good news. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 54136 (50279) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 From pekkas@netcore.fi Wed Dec 4 20:07:09 2002 From: pekkas@netcore.fi (Pekka Savola) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:07:09 +0200 (EET) Subject: [6bone] pTLA 3FFE:1E00::/24 reclaimed to pool In-Reply-To: <138882904296.20021204191207@rdns.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Sascha Bielski wrote: > > I will take Paul Aitken's suggestion and return this to the bottom of the > > pool so new pTLA allocations will not use it ever (or at least for quite a > > while) to avoid possible filter problems. Note that this is a /24, and thus > > is already in a pool that no new allocations are coming from. > > maybe we should recycle that /24 in some months. maybe a _big_ > provider can use a /24 in some time (i talk about a _big_ provider, > nothing like a small ISP). we should not waste that space. IMO, it's a useless effort. _big_ providers are not categorically interested in 6bone space. Better not try to whip the dead (dying) horse, it has already lost usefulnesss. Better to just try to ensure it can die without pain :-) -- Pekka Savola "Tell me of difficulties surmounted, Netcore Oy not those you stumble over and fall" Systems. Networks. Security. -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Dec 4 20:27:35 2002 From: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:27:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021203172046.032db478@imap2.es.net> from Bob Fink at "Dec 3, 2 05:44:41 pm" Message-ID: <200212042027.gB4KRZA10753@boreas.isi.edu> % Pim, % % I agree that if a pTLA is unused for some period of time should be returned % to the pool. What the exact wording and length of out of service time % should be, I haven't formed an exact opinion on yet. % % Sounds like 3FFE:3400::/24 is a strong candidate to be reclaimed. I will % post an intent to reclaim this pTLA with a two week notice. % % Thanks, % Bob % _______________________________________________ perhaps, given that 3ffe:: looks like it may be transitioned to RIR mgmt, that the "fallow" period may be best tagged in years. My suggestion is at least -5-. wrt followup on delegations, a quarterly audit of the the delegations via DNS registrations is done. there are -many- dead delegations as seen from that perspective. -- --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From fink@es.net Thu Dec 5 01:10:54 2002 From: fink@es.net (Bob Fink) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:10:54 -0800 Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE In-Reply-To: <200212042027.gB4KRZA10753@boreas.isi.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021203172046.032db478@imap2.es.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021204170945.02f26e50@imap2.es.net> Bill, At 12:27 PM 12/4/2002 -0800, Bill Manning wrote: >% Pim, >% >% I agree that if a pTLA is unused for some period of time should be returned >% to the pool. What the exact wording and length of out of service time >% should be, I haven't formed an exact opinion on yet. >% >% Sounds like 3FFE:3400::/24 is a strong candidate to be reclaimed. I will >% post an intent to reclaim this pTLA with a two week notice. >% >% Thanks, >% Bob >% _______________________________________________ > > perhaps, given that 3ffe:: looks like it may be transitioned > to RIR mgmt, that the "fallow" period may be best tagged > in years. My suggestion is at least -5-. The RIRs still expect the 6bone community to manage the allocation process. > wrt followup on delegations, a quarterly audit of the > the delegations via DNS registrations is done. there are > -many- dead delegations as seen from that perspective. Can you share the audit? Thanks, Bob From fink@es.net Thu Dec 5 01:13:57 2002 From: fink@es.net (Bob Fink) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:13:57 -0800 Subject: [6bone] pTLA 3FFE:1E00::/24 reclaimed to pool In-Reply-To: <138882904296.20021204191207@rdns.de> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021204084838.028f13b0@imap2.es.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20021204084838.028f13b0@imap2.es.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021204170525.032f2430@imap2.es.net> Sascha, At 07:12 PM 12/4/2002 +0100, Sascha Bielski wrote: >Dear Bob Fink, > > > I will take Paul Aitken's suggestion and return this to the bottom of the > > pool so new pTLA allocations will not use it ever (or at least for quite a > > while) to avoid possible filter problems. Note that this is a /24, and > thus > > is already in a pool that no new allocations are coming from. > >maybe we should recycle that /24 in some months. maybe a _big_ >provider can use a /24 in some time (i talk about a _big_ provider, >nothing like a small ISP). we should not waste that space. At this time there is almost no likelihood that any ISP could qualify for a /24 pTLA. We are now allocating /32's to be inline with RIR /32 policy. Any really large ISP with a deployment plan sufficient to justify a /24 should be talking to the RIRs, not the 6bone. Thanks, Bob From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Dec 5 03:13:01 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 04:13:01 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021204075917.032f2678@imap2.es.net> Message-ID: <005701c29c0c$38862050$210d640a@unfix.org> Bob Fink wrote: > Jeroen, > > Thanks for your help on this. As promised, a big list of 6bone availability statistics: https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone/ It lists all the 6bone prefixes, marking them red if they where not available for the last 24 hours. "Currently 14 pTLA's didn't have a routing entry for their TLA". I've also included a "pTLA's per country" listing showing the US at the top with 33 pTLA's Are the US organisations holding on to their 6bone space instead of requesting RIR space from ARIN ? And yes I like flags so I've included those again :) Greets, Jeroen From fink@es.net Thu Dec 5 06:22:32 2002 From: fink@es.net (Bob Fink) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 22:22:32 -0800 Subject: [6bone] 3ffe:3400::/24 / IPF/DE In-Reply-To: <005701c29c0c$38862050$210d640a@unfix.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021204075917.032f2678@imap2.es.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021204222004.03221d10@imap2.es.net> Jeroen, Nice work. Thanks again. I will start a process of notifying the contacts of intent to reclaim, or post an open notice if I can't get a response. I will also put a link on the 6bone page to your tool so all can see these regularly. Bob === At 04:13 AM 12/5/2002 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote: >Bob Fink wrote: > > > Jeroen, > > > > Thanks for your help on this. > >As promised, a big list of 6bone availability statistics: > >https://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/6bone/ > >It lists all the 6bone prefixes, marking them red if they where not >available for the last 24 hours. > >"Currently 14 pTLA's didn't have a routing entry for their TLA". > >I've also included a "pTLA's per country" listing showing >the US at the top with 33 pTLA's >Are the US organisations holding on to their 6bone space instead >of requesting RIR space from ARIN ? > >And yes I like flags so I've included those again :) > >Greets, > Jeroen From koch@tiscali.net Thu Dec 5 07:13:02 2002 From: koch@tiscali.net (Alexander Koch) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:13:02 +0100 Subject: [6bone] free transit In-Reply-To: <20021204150039.Y15927@Space.Net> References: <20021204150039.Y15927@Space.Net> Message-ID: <20021205071302.GB28304@shekinah.ip.tiscali.net> Hi Hans, Gert, on this subject I had a discussion with someone being present at some random exchange in Europe doing IPv6. It came down to me writing to him to 'consider twice if you really want to receive a full table from anyone except XXX and YYY on that exchange' because of the dreading tunnels while other people have these connections natively on their backbone. Tiscali is only doing peering for that reason, if not agreed otherwise. We have it set up exactly like IPv4, communities tagging for outbound and max-prefix on the incoming site. Regards, Alexander -- Alexander Koch / ako4-ripe Network Engineer, Tiscali International Network Robert-Bosch-Strasse 32, D-63303 Dreieich, Germany Phone +49 6103 916 480, Fax +49 6103 916 464 From =?iso-8859-1?Q?C=E9sar_Olvera_Morales?= Thu Dec 5 14:27:22 2002 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?C=E9sar_Olvera_Morales?= (=?iso-8859-1?Q?C=E9sar_Olvera_Morales?=) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:27:22 +0100 Subject: Euro6IX prefix announce Re: [6bone] AS45333 (<-- reserved!) announcing 3ffe:400f::/32 Message-ID: <02e501c29c6a$8e215210$3500000a@consulintel.es> Hello all, We're announcing Euro6IX prefix using TILAB AS Number AS5609... Thanks to Raffaele D'Albenzio from TILAB. Best Regards, César Olvera Consulintel *********************************** Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit 12-14 May 2003 - Soon on line at: http://www.ipv6-es.com Interested in participating or sponsoring ? Contact us at ipv6@consulintel.es From jeroen@unfix.org Thu Dec 5 16:59:58 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:59:58 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Re: Ghost Route Hunter In-Reply-To: <20021204202313.X15927@Space.Net> Message-ID: <001201c29c7f$bee69f80$210d640a@unfix.org> Gert Doering wrote: > hi, > > On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 08:06:17PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > Hmmmmm I don't see any ghosts any more... :) > > So you've already succeeded :-) - good news. Unfortunatly some came back again :( Anyways... I've now also fixed up the TLA availability to support the other RIR's. Check http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/ for a nice overview (with flags :) The US count can be a bit off as I couldn't easily find out which country every prefix belonged to. Note also, like said at the top, that if one announces a /35 but one is actually assigned a /32 this will turn up red in these stats. Greets & Happy Sinterklaas, Jeroen From christian.steger@hm.inode.at Sun Dec 8 11:24:27 2002 From: christian.steger@hm.inode.at (Christian Steger) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 12:24:27 +0100 (CET) Subject: [6bone] 6to4 tunnel request? - where shall i get connected? Message-ID: hi to the ipng community :) we are an isp in at and would like to establish an 4to6 tunnel. courrently we have en v6 native link to sume isps in vienna; so i am kindly ask where should i get connected, and who is carry such 4to6 tunnles, i know 6bone does, but where shall i get connected to ? any ideas ? - thanks for any answers. btw: we have our own sTLA recveived from our RIR (RIPE-NCC 2001:9f8::/32) kind regards christian steger p.s.: i did already the procedere for the 6bone whois database. From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Sun Dec 8 16:14:15 2002 From: nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net (Nicolas DEFFAYET) Date: 08 Dec 2002 17:14:15 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 6to4 tunnel request? - where shall i get connected? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1039364055.1310.2044.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 12:24, Christian Steger wrote: Hi Christian, > we are an isp in at and would like to establish an 4to6 tunnel. 4to6 tunnel ? Do you mean an IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel ? > courrently we have en v6 native link to sume isps in vienna; so i am > kindly ask where should i get connected, and who is carry such 4to6 > tunnles, i know 6bone does, but where shall i get connected to ? > > any ideas ? - thanks for any answers. > > btw: we have our own sTLA recveived from our RIR (RIPE-NCC 2001:9f8::/32) We can peer if the IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel have less than 50ms of latency. Best Regards, -- Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/ FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/ Network administrator channel: #nocpeople @ IRCnet From jeanthery@olympus-zone.net Sun Dec 8 16:59:24 2002 From: jeanthery@olympus-zone.net (=?Windows-1252?Q?Jean_Th=E9ry?=) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 17:59:24 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 6to4 tunnel request? - where shall i get connected? References: <1039364055.1310.2044.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> Message-ID: <006b01c29edb$297b7b60$0202010a@teraii> Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote: > On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 12:24, Christian Steger wrote: > Hi Christian, > >> we are an isp in at and would like to establish an 4to6 tunnel. > > 4to6 tunnel ? > Do you mean an IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel ? > >> courrently we have en v6 native link to sume isps in vienna; so i am >> kindly ask where should i get connected, and who is carry such 4to6 >> tunnles, i know 6bone does, but where shall i get connected to ? >> >> any ideas ? - thanks for any answers. >> >> btw: we have our own sTLA recveived from our RIR (RIPE-NCC >> 2001:9f8::/32) > > We can peer if the IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel have less than 50ms of > latency. > > Best Regards, He want to say IPv4 transport Over IPv6 tunnel (on IPv6 native link). Cordially, Jean Théry Administration Réseaux & Systèmes jeanthery@olympus-zone.net Olympus-Zone www.olympus-zone.net From christian.steger@hm.inode.at Sun Dec 8 18:09:17 2002 From: christian.steger@hm.inode.at (Christian Steger) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:09:17 +0100 (CET) Subject: [6bone] 6to4 tunnel request? - where shall i get connected? In-Reply-To: <1039364055.1310.2044.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> Message-ID: > On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 12:24, Christian Steger wrote: > Hi Christian, > > > we are an isp in at and would like to establish an 4to6 tunnel. > > 4to6 tunnel ? > Do you mean an IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel ? > > > courrently we have en v6 native link to sume isps in vienna; so i am > > kindly ask where should i get connected, and who is carry such 4to6 > > tunnles, i know 6bone does, but where shall i get connected to ? > > > > any ideas ? - thanks for any answers. > > > > btw: we have our own sTLA recveived from our RIR (RIPE-NCC 2001:9f8::/32) > > We can peer if the IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel have less than 50ms of latency. sure, sorry ment of course ment ipv6 over ipv4. sorry for the mess :) chris > > -- > Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware > NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/ > FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/ > Network administrator channel: #nocpeople @ IRCnet > From gert@space.net Sun Dec 8 18:02:42 2002 From: gert@space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:02:42 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 6to4 tunnel request? - where shall i get connected? In-Reply-To: ; from christian.steger@hm.inode.at on Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 12:24:27PM +0100 References: Message-ID: <20021208190242.Y15927@Space.Net> Hi, On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 12:24:27PM +0100, Christian Steger wrote: > hi to the ipng community :) > > we are an isp in at and would like to establish an 4to6 tunnel. > courrently we have en v6 native link to sume isps in vienna; so i am > kindly ask where should i get connected, and who is carry such 4to6 > tunnles, i know 6bone does, but where shall i get connected to ? > > any ideas ? - thanks for any answers. > > btw: we have our own sTLA recveived from our RIR (RIPE-NCC 2001:9f8::/32) A good approach would be to do native peerings at the DECIX, and maybe even get native upstream there... Don't build too many tunnels, they hurt routing in the long run. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 54255 (54136) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 From zgchen@psl.com.sg Mon Dec 9 14:04:30 2002 From: zgchen@psl.com.sg (Chen Zhigao) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:04:30 +0800 Subject: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network Message-ID: Dear all, I would like to have two hosts, which run IPv6 application on Linux, communicate each other across a commercial network. But there is no IPv6 support in the commercial network. I guess IPv6/ICMPv6 packets must be converted to IPv4/ICMPv4 packets in host b4 they enter the IPv4 network. Likewise, IPv4/ICMPv4 shall be converted back to IPv6/ICMPv6 once they reach the destination IPv6 host. What I want is a IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling. I have a few questions as follows. 1) Has such work been implemented in Linux or other OS? 2) If no, which RFC or draft addressing this issue? 3) Does my scenario need to connect to 6bone, since only two IPv6 hosts are involved? 4) Anything else need to be done apart from conversion of IP/ICMP? Any suggestion and comment are highly appreciated. Best regards, Zhigao From bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net Mon Dec 9 14:25:05 2002 From: bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net (Stephane Bortzmeyer) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:25:05 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021209142505.GA25520@nic.fr> On Mon, Dec 09, 2002 at 10:04:30PM +0800, Chen Zhigao wrote a message of 26 lines which said: > I guess IPv6/ICMPv6 packets must be converted to IPv4/ICMPv4 packets No: too complicated to do it in the kernel, semantics too different, too many things can go wrong. > What I want is a IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling. Yes. Just set up a tunnel. > 1) Has such work been implemented in Linux or other OS? Yes. On each side (the syntax is Debian, YMMV): auto tun1 iface tun1 inet6 v4tunnel endpoint 213.248.x.y address 2001:6c0:x:y:z netmask 127 # Not mandatory but could be useful (BGP...) Use traceroute to see # the length of the tunnel (9 in my case) up ip tunnel change tun1 ttl 9 > 3) Does my scenario need to connect to 6bone, since only two IPv6 hosts are > involved? No. > 4) Anything else need to be done apart from conversion of IP/ICMP? Do not do it. Just tunnel IPv6 over IPv4. > Any suggestion and comment are highly appreciated. Check the firewall, too: you need to authorize protocol 41 (IPv6 into IPv4). From pasky@xs26.net Mon Dec 9 20:10:17 2002 From: pasky@xs26.net (Petr Baudis) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 21:10:17 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network In-Reply-To: <20021209142505.GA25520@nic.fr> References: <20021209142505.GA25520@nic.fr> Message-ID: <20021209201016.GI3087@pasky.ji.cz> Dear diary, on Mon, Dec 09, 2002 at 03:25:05PM CET, I got a letter, where Stephane Bortzmeyer told me, that... > On Mon, Dec 09, 2002 at 10:04:30PM +0800, > Chen Zhigao wrote > a message of 26 lines which said: > > > I guess IPv6/ICMPv6 packets must be converted to IPv4/ICMPv4 packets > > No: too complicated to do it in the kernel, semantics too different, > too many things can go wrong. > > > What I want is a IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling. > > Yes. Just set up a tunnel. In fact, the tunnel does nothing more than that "conversion" - but to avoid any confusion, what in fact happens is that the IPv6/ICMPv6 packet is just verbatim inserted into IPv4 packet (with protocol 41, as also mentioned below) and took from the IPv4 packet on the other side. > > 1) Has such work been implemented in Linux or other OS? > > Yes. On each side (the syntax is Debian, YMMV): > > auto tun1 > iface tun1 inet6 v4tunnel > endpoint 213.248.x.y > address 2001:6c0:x:y:z > netmask 127 > # Not mandatory but could be useful (BGP...) Use traceroute to see > # the length of the tunnel (9 in my case) > up ip tunnel change tun1 ttl 9 If you want just Linux commands: iptunnel add mytunnel mode sit local remote ttl 64 ifconfig mytunnel up Then, you run the similiar command on the other side (just swapped local and remote addresses), you will maybe want to assign some addresses to the interfaces (altough if they are only two IPv6 hosts separated from 6bone, you may have trouble with choosing an appropriate global address - so you well may just stay with the link local addresses, which are assigned to the interfaces automatically when you set them up - you can use them only when you communicate through that one tunnel, though)... Kind regards, -- Petr "Pasky" Baudis . > I don't know why people still want ACL's. There were noises about them for > samba, but I'v enot heard anything since. Are vendors using this? Because People Are Stupid(tm). Because it's cheaper to put "ACL support: yes" in the feature list under "Security" than to make sure than userland can cope with anything more complex than "Me Og. Og see directory. Directory Og's. Nobody change it". C.f. snake oil, P.T.Barnum and esp. LSM users -- Al Viro . Crap: http://pasky.ji.cz/ From tlangdon@atctraining.com.au Mon Dec 9 21:17:44 2002 From: tlangdon@atctraining.com.au (Tony Langdon) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:17:44 +1100 Subject: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network Message-ID: > > What I want is a IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling. > > Yes. Just set up a tunnel. I agree. I've got this Win2k machine connected to the rest of the IPv6 network here through a tunnel. Works fine > > > 1) Has such work been implemented in Linux or other OS? > > Yes. On each side (the syntax is Debian, YMMV): > > auto tun1 > iface tun1 inet6 v4tunnel > endpoint 213.248.x.y > address 2001:6c0:x:y:z > netmask 127 > # Not mandatory but could be useful (BGP...) Use traceroute to see > # the length of the tunnel (9 in my case) > up ip tunnel change tun1 ttl 9 And the ifcfg-sit1 file for a Red Hat 7.3 box (again, for an internal tunnel to my laptop). [root@gw5 network-scripts]# cat ifcfg-sit1 DEVICE=sit1 BOOTPROTO=none ONBOOT=yes IPV6INIT=yes IPV6TUNNELIPV4=192.168.6.201 IPV6ADDR=3ffe:b80:cb1:69::1/64 --- Outgoing mail has been scanned for Viruses Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 6/12/2002 This correspondence is for the named person’s use only. It may contain confidential or legally privileged information or both. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this correspondence in error, please immediately delete it from your system and notify the sender. You must not disclose, copy or rely on any part of this correspondence if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. From zgchen@psl.com.sg Tue Dec 10 13:04:20 2002 From: zgchen@psl.com.sg (Chen Zhigao) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 21:04:20 +0800 Subject: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network In-Reply-To: <20021209142505.GA25520@nic.fr> Message-ID: Thanks for all of ur advice. Because our network is behind a NAT server, the two IPv6 hosts might not be assigned global IPv4 addresses so as to act as tunnel endpoints. Someone told me the Teredo protocol can tunnel IPv6 over UDP through NAT. So I get some new questions. Hope to hear from you. 1) Is there any Teredo implementation available for Linux? 2) How would it affect the normal 6-over-4 tunneling? Any different configuration? 3) With 6-over-4 tunneling, IPv4 router, especially the subnet router, and IPv6 host can not interpret each other's ICMP packets, e.g. router solicitation/advertisement. Guess I shall implement a module to convert ICMPv4 and ICMPv6. Am I correct? Look forward to your reply and suggestion. Many thanks. Zhigao -----Original Message----- From: 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu]On Behalf Of Stephane Bortzmeyer Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 10:25 PM To: Chen Zhigao Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu Subject: Re: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network On Mon, Dec 09, 2002 at 10:04:30PM +0800, Chen Zhigao wrote a message of 26 lines which said: > I guess IPv6/ICMPv6 packets must be converted to IPv4/ICMPv4 packets No: too complicated to do it in the kernel, semantics too different, too many things can go wrong. > What I want is a IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling. Yes. Just set up a tunnel. > 1) Has such work been implemented in Linux or other OS? Yes. On each side (the syntax is Debian, YMMV): auto tun1 iface tun1 inet6 v4tunnel endpoint 213.248.x.y address 2001:6c0:x:y:z netmask 127 # Not mandatory but could be useful (BGP...) Use traceroute to see # the length of the tunnel (9 in my case) up ip tunnel change tun1 ttl 9 > 3) Does my scenario need to connect to 6bone, since only two IPv6 hosts are > involved? No. > 4) Anything else need to be done apart from conversion of IP/ICMP? Do not do it. Just tunnel IPv6 over IPv4. > Any suggestion and comment are highly appreciated. Check the firewall, too: you need to authorize protocol 41 (IPv6 into IPv4). _______________________________________________ 6bone mailing list 6bone@mailman.isi.edu http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone From raffaele.dalbenzio@tilab.com Tue Dec 10 13:41:08 2002 From: raffaele.dalbenzio@tilab.com (Raffaele D'Albenzio) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:41:08 +0100 Subject: [6bone] New version of ASPath-tree (4.1) available on-line Message-ID: <6ECEC1E214F2E342814ABB1ED10E79558A8358@EXC2K01B.cselt.it> Hello everybody, we released a new version of ASPath-tree (v4.1) that fixes some bugs we found on the new major release 4.0. The changes are: - Fixed few bugs since v.4.0. - AS confederations supported properly. - Added support for zebra versions 093x. - Users experiencing damped or historical route entries strongly recommended to upgrade. It is available at http://carmen.ipv6.tilab.com/cgi-bin/download.pl?pkg=ASpath-tree Regards, Raffaele D'Albenzio. From Ron.Barker@v-pe.de Tue Dec 10 16:18:20 2002 From: Ron.Barker@v-pe.de (Barker, Ron, vpe) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 17:18:20 +0100 Subject: [6bone] .NET and ripng Message-ID: <55D9F49A60EF2A44BF1AC7F348D9385227CD1C@mail.v-pe.de> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2A067.C1058187 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has any one had in experience with using .NET as a Router. We are = haveing a rough time! The set up consist of a CISCO 2500 advertising a = sub net prefix. There are two routers attached to the et0 interface, one is a netbsdsand one is a .NET. Each router subsequently = advertises subnets to other host. The problem is that the nedbsd + any host on the subnet ( i.e., either a = UNIX or .NET/XP ) behaves as expected. The host receives a prefix and = default route from the router. However, the .NET / XP used a router behaves in a totally different manner. =20 1. The .NET router receives the prefix and default route from the CISCO = as expected, same as netbsd. 2. The .NET router does not provide the host on the next subnet with a = default route, only a prefix. 3. The .NET + Host do not send RIP info hence the CISCO router has no = route info. 4. Adding a static route does not seem to help Any ideas. Thanks Ron Dr. Ronald D. Barker Vodafone Pilotentwicklung GmbH Chiemgaustr. 116 D-81549 Munich Germany Fon +49 (89) 95 410 -0 Fax +49 (89) 95 410 -111 www.v-pe.de ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2A067.C1058187 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable .NET and ripng

Has any one had in experience with = using .NET as a Router.  We are haveing a rough time!  The set = up consist of a CISCO 2500 advertising a sub net prefix.  There are = two routers attached to the et0 interface, one is a netbsdsand one is a = .NET.  Each router subsequently advertises subnets to other = host.

The problem is that the nedbsd + any = host on the subnet ( i.e., either a UNIX or .NET/XP ) behaves as = expected.  The host receives a prefix and default route from the = router.  However, the .NET / XP used a router behaves in a totally = different manner. 

1. The .NET router receives the prefix = and default route from the CISCO as expected, same as netbsd.
2. The .NET router does not provide = the host on the next subnet with a default route, only a prefix.
3. The .NET + Host do not send RIP = info hence the CISCO router has no route info.
4.  Adding a static route does = not seem to help

Any ideas.

Thanks
Ron







Dr. Ronald D. Barker
Vodafone Pilotentwicklung GmbH
Chiemgaustr. 116
D-81549 Munich
Germany
Fon +49 (89) 95 410 -0
Fax +49 (89) 95 410 -111
www.v-pe.de


------_=_NextPart_001_01C2A067.C1058187-- From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec 10 17:32:35 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 18:32:35 +0100 Subject: [6bone] .NET and ripng In-Reply-To: <55D9F49A60EF2A44BF1AC7F348D9385227CD1C@mail.v-pe.de> Message-ID: <001501c2a072$225e8190$210d640a@unfix.org> Barker, Ron, vpe wrote: > Has any one had in experience with using .NET as a Router. > We are haveing a rough time! The set up consist of a CISCO > 2500 advertising a sub net prefix. There are two routers > attached to the et0 interface, one is a netbsdsand one is a > .NET. Each router subsequently advertises subnets to other host. > > The problem is that the nedbsd + any host on the subnet ( > i.e., either a UNIX or .NET/XP ) behaves as expected. The > host receives a prefix and default route from the router. > However, the .NET / XP used a router behaves in a totally > different manner. What is it a .NET or a XP box? Also .NET is still a beta thing. Thinking of that you should prolly contact ipv6-fb@microsoft.com about these issues ;) Just the same when blattering about cisco here but not mailing ipv6-support@cisco.com > 1. The .NET router receives the prefix and default route from > the CISCO as expected, same as netbsd. > 2. The .NET router does not provide the host on the next > subnet with a default route, only a prefix. > 3. The .NET + Host do not send RIP info hence the CISCO > router has no route info. > 4. Adding a static route does not seem to help You might play a real doctor and read the docs and enable forwarding ;) Greets, Jeroen From tlangdon@atctraining.com.au Tue Dec 10 21:37:05 2002 From: tlangdon@atctraining.com.au (Tony Langdon) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:37:05 +1100 Subject: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network Message-ID: > Thanks for all of ur advice. Because our network is behind a > NAT server, the > two IPv6 hosts might not be assigned global IPv4 addresses so > as to act as As long as the NAT gateway is not between the two hosts, there isn't a problem (if you look closely at the Red Hat configuration I sent yesterday, you'll notice private IP addresses in the IPv4 endpoints. Yes, the IPv6 host-host tunnel I'm running is in private IPv4 space. --- Outgoing mail has been scanned for Viruses Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 6/12/2002 This correspondence is for the named person’s use only. It may contain confidential or legally privileged information or both. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this correspondence in error, please immediately delete it from your system and notify the sender. You must not disclose, copy or rely on any part of this correspondence if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. From djw@bbn.com Wed Dec 11 16:36:25 2002 From: djw@bbn.com (David Waitzman) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:36:25 -0500 Subject: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong Message-ID: <3DF76989.7040306@bbn.com> I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel endpoint 2001:: address. I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which is assigned to one of my ether interfaces. When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel is used as a source address. I don't get ping responses back (presumably because www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given that the address it is getting is not routed). If I do a ping6 -S, selecting my 6bone 3ffe:: address as the source, then ping6 gets responses from kame just fine. I am using FreeBSD 4.6. We run Zebra-based BGP+ with our tunnel provider and thus have no default route. My questions: 1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable? 2. Or how do I force FreeBSD to use the ether's IPv6 address as a source by default? (Not all applications have the equivalent of Ping6's -S option to force the source address selection.) -david waitzman From paul@timmins.net Wed Dec 11 18:23:48 2002 From: paul@timmins.net (Paul Timmins) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:23:48 -0500 Subject: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong In-Reply-To: <3DF76989.7040306@bbn.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021211131947.00b95910@workbench.net> At 11:36 AM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: >I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel endpoint 2001:: >address. I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which is assigned >to one of my ether interfaces. > >When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel is used as a >source address. I don't get ping responses back (presumably because >www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given that the address >it is getting is not routed). What it is doing is correct, and all implementations do this. They take the IP address of the closest egress interface, being your tunnel. This is generally a good thing, as if you have a machine with a RFC-1918 address on fxp0, and an internet wide interface on ppp0, you don't want to source packets out ppp0 with the IP address of fxp0. Put in this perspective, it makes more sense. :-) >If I do a ping6 -S, selecting my 6bone 3ffe:: address as the source, then >ping6 gets responses from kame just fine. This beats the logic that gives you the IP of the egress interface. >I am using FreeBSD 4.6. >We run Zebra-based BGP+ with our tunnel provider and thus have no default >route. Behavior is the same with my Linux 2.4.19 machine running defaultless BGP4+ with Zebra. >My questions: >1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable? Yes >2. Or how do I force FreeBSD to use the ether's IPv6 address as a source >by default? (Not all applications have the equivalent of Ping6's -S >option to force the source address selection.) No idea. Haven't used *BSD in a long enough time to remember. -Paul From Jan Oravec Wed Dec 11 19:19:02 2002 From: Jan Oravec (Jan Oravec) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:19:02 +0100 Subject: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021211131947.00b95910@workbench.net> References: <3DF76989.7040306@bbn.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20021211131947.00b95910@workbench.net> Message-ID: <20021211191902.GA16838@wsx.ksp.sk> > >My questions: > >1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable? > > Yes I do not see a reason for IPv6-numbering PtP interfaces. We usually need that for special connections (usually routing software) between two nodes which are connected. The great advantage of IPv6 is that we have link-local addresses, thus we do not need public-routable addresses for that. You will need to specify interface in bgpd.conf, e.g.: neighbor fe80::201:3ff:fed5:bd1e remote-as 12345 neighbor fe80::201:3ff:fed5:bd1e interface gif0 Best Regards, -- Jan Oravec XS26 coordinator 6COM s.r.o. 'Access to IPv6' http://www.6com.sk http://www.xs26.net +421-903-316905 From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Wed Dec 11 19:24:14 2002 From: kim@tac.nyc.ny.us (Kimmo Suominen) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:24:14 -0500 Subject: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021211131947.00b95910@workbench.net> from Paul Timmins on Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:23:48 -0500 References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021211131947.00b95910@workbench.net> Message-ID: <20021211192414.2B4AE7E10@beowulf.gw.com> I've found that on a multihomed KAME (NetBSD) system the address numerically closest to that of the destination would be used, at least when all the egress interfaces (being tunnels) had no global addresses. I would have liked to be able to mark one address as the primary to be used when a specific source address was not explicitly requested by the application. The workaround is not to use routers to talk to anyone... :-) + Kim | From: Paul Timmins | Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:23:48 -0500 | | At 11:36 AM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: | >I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel endpoint 2001:: | >address. I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which is assigned | >to one of my ether interfaces. | > | >When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel is used as a | >source address. I don't get ping responses back (presumably because | >www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given that the address | >it is getting is not routed). | | What it is doing is correct, and all implementations do this. They take the | IP address of the closest egress interface, being your tunnel. | | This is generally a good thing, as if you have a machine with a RFC-1918 | address on fxp0, and an internet wide interface on ppp0, you don't want to | source packets out ppp0 with the IP address of fxp0. Put in this | perspective, it makes more sense. :-) From jeroen@unfix.org Wed Dec 11 19:27:08 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:27:08 +0100 Subject: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong In-Reply-To: <3DF76989.7040306@bbn.com> Message-ID: <001901c2a14b$4c5dccb0$210d640a@unfix.org> David Waitzman wrote: > I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel > endpoint 2001:: > address. I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which > is assigned > to one of my ether interfaces. > > When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel > is used as a > source address. I don't get ping responses back (presumably because > www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given > that the address > it is getting is not routed). > > If I do a ping6 -S, selecting my 6bone 3ffe:: address as the > source, then > ping6 gets responses from kame just fine. > > I am using FreeBSD 4.6. > We run Zebra-based BGP+ with our tunnel provider and thus > have no default > route. > > My questions: > 1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable? They should be reachable thus they should be 'routable'. > 2. Or how do I force FreeBSD to use the ether's IPv6 address > as a source by > default? (Not all applications have the equivalent of > Ping6's -S option to > force the source address selection.) Get yourself a decent OS with sourcerouting. Also your upstream SHOULD filter out any prefixes of source addresses not belonging to them (aka eggress filtering :). And yes this breaks 'multihoming', at least the way some people define it. Greets, Jeroen From Marcin Markowski Thu Dec 12 00:26:04 2002 From: Marcin Markowski (Marcin Markowski) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 01:26:04 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Strage problems with BGP Message-ID: <39348758388.20021212012604@chabrowa.net> Hi, I have private ASN and i have problems, because my ASN is announced to public routes. I have 'set community no-export' in route-map to all peers, but that option doesn't work. Maybe someone know where is problem? I'm using Slackware 8.1 with zebra 0.93b Example of conf with peer: [...] neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 remote-as 5424 neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 description ATNET-AT (router1.ipv6.atnet.at) neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 interface atnet-at neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 update-source 3ffe:8060:100::46:2 [...] neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 activate neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 soft-reconfiguration inbound neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list bgp-i in neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list ebgp-risp-out out neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 route-map noexport-out out [...] route-map noexport-out permit 10 match ipv6 address all set community no-export [...] -- Marcin Markowski mail: max@chabrowa.net tel.: +48 502305580 From hari@UDel.Edu Thu Dec 12 00:25:01 2002 From: hari@UDel.Edu (Harish Nair) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 19:25:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: [6bone] Re: 6bone digest, Vol 1 #210 - 6 msgs In-Reply-To: <200212112005.gBBK5ED08742@gamma.isi.edu> References: <200212112005.gBBK5ED08742@gamma.isi.edu> Message-ID: This message concerns about site multicasting across subnets. We have two IPv6 site local subnets here : fec0::1 and fec0::2 Each subnet has a FreeBSD machine acting as a router. The two routers have only IPv4 connectivity between them and so are "Ipv6 connected" using gif Ipv6-Ipv4 tunnels. Both routers have the pim6dd deamon running for multicast. One node in sunbet 1 functions as an NTP multicast server transmitting timestamps to the site multicast address ff05::101. All other nodes in both subnets act as ntp multicast clients looking for timestamps from ff05::101. However we only nodes in subnet 1 are able to receive the timestamps. The gif tunnels in both routers are multicast enabled. How do I get both routers to forward multicast packets across the tunnels? Thanks, Harish On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu wrote: > Send 6bone mailing list submissions to > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > 6bone-request@mailman.isi.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > 6bone-admin@mailman.isi.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of 6bone digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network (Tony Langdon) > 2. freebsd src addr wrong (David Waitzman) > 3. Re: freebsd src addr wrong (Paul Timmins) > 4. Re: freebsd src addr wrong (Jan Oravec) > 5. Re: freebsd src addr wrong (Kimmo Suominen) > 6. RE: freebsd src addr wrong (Jeroen Massar) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > From: Tony Langdon > To: "'Chen Zhigao'" , > Stephane Bortzmeyer > , pasky@xs26.net > Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > Subject: RE: [6bone] Two IPv6 Hosts Communicating over IPv4 network > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:37:05 +1100 > > > Thanks for all of ur advice. Because our network is behind a > > NAT server, the > > two IPv6 hosts might not be assigned global IPv4 addresses so > > as to act as > > As long as the NAT gateway is not between the two hosts, there isn't a > problem (if you look closely at the Red Hat configuration I sent yesterday, > you'll notice private IP addresses in the IPv4 endpoints. Yes, the IPv6 > host-host tunnel I'm running is in private IPv4 space. > > --- > Outgoing mail has been scanned for Viruses > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 6/12/2002 > > > This correspondence is for the named person’s use only. It may contain > confidential or legally privileged information or both. No confidentiality > or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this > correspondence in error, please immediately delete it from your system and > notify the sender. You must not disclose, copy or rely on any part of this > correspondence if you are not the intended recipient. > > Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:36:25 -0500 > From: David Waitzman > To: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > Subject: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong > > I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel endpoint 2001:: > address. I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which is assigned > to one of my ether interfaces. > > When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel is used as a > source address. I don't get ping responses back (presumably because > www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given that the address > it is getting is not routed). > > If I do a ping6 -S, selecting my 6bone 3ffe:: address as the source, then > ping6 gets responses from kame just fine. > > I am using FreeBSD 4.6. > We run Zebra-based BGP+ with our tunnel provider and thus have no default > route. > > My questions: > 1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable? > 2. Or how do I force FreeBSD to use the ether's IPv6 address as a source by > default? (Not all applications have the equivalent of Ping6's -S option to > force the source address selection.) > > -david waitzman > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:23:48 -0500 > To: David Waitzman > From: Paul Timmins > Subject: Re: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong > Cc: 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > > At 11:36 AM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel endpoint 2001:: > >address. I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which is assigned > >to one of my ether interfaces. > > > >When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel is used as a > >source address. I don't get ping responses back (presumably because > >www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given that the address > >it is getting is not routed). > > What it is doing is correct, and all implementations do this. They take the > IP address of the closest egress interface, being your tunnel. > > This is generally a good thing, as if you have a machine with a RFC-1918 > address on fxp0, and an internet wide interface on ppp0, you don't want to > source packets out ppp0 with the IP address of fxp0. Put in this > perspective, it makes more sense. :-) > > >If I do a ping6 -S, selecting my 6bone 3ffe:: address as the source, then > >ping6 gets responses from kame just fine. > > This beats the logic that gives you the IP of the egress interface. > > >I am using FreeBSD 4.6. > >We run Zebra-based BGP+ with our tunnel provider and thus have no default > >route. > > Behavior is the same with my Linux 2.4.19 machine running defaultless BGP4+ > with Zebra. > > >My questions: > >1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable? > > Yes > > >2. Or how do I force FreeBSD to use the ether's IPv6 address as a source > >by default? (Not all applications have the equivalent of Ping6's -S > >option to force the source address selection.) > > No idea. Haven't used *BSD in a long enough time to remember. > > -Paul > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:19:02 +0100 > From: Jan Oravec > To: Paul Timmins > Cc: David Waitzman , 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > Subject: Re: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong > Reply-To: Jan Oravec > > > >My questions: > > >1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable? > > > > Yes > > I do not see a reason for IPv6-numbering PtP interfaces. We usually need > that for special connections (usually routing software) between two nodes > which are connected. The great advantage of IPv6 is that we have link-local > addresses, thus we do not need public-routable addresses for that. > > You will need to specify interface in bgpd.conf, e.g.: > > neighbor fe80::201:3ff:fed5:bd1e remote-as 12345 > neighbor fe80::201:3ff:fed5:bd1e interface gif0 > > Best Regards, > > -- > Jan Oravec XS26 coordinator > 6COM s.r.o. 'Access to IPv6' > http://www.6com.sk http://www.xs26.net > +421-903-316905 > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > To: Paul Timmins > Cc: David Waitzman , 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > Subject: Re: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:24:14 -0500 > From: Kimmo Suominen > > I've found that on a multihomed KAME (NetBSD) system the address > numerically closest to that of the destination would be used, at > least when all the egress interfaces (being tunnels) had no global > addresses. I would have liked to be able to mark one address as > the primary to be used when a specific source address was not > explicitly requested by the application. > > The workaround is not to use routers to talk to anyone... :-) > > + Kim > > > | From: Paul Timmins > | Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:23:48 -0500 > | > | At 11:36 AM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: > | >I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel endpoint 2001:: > | >address. I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which is assigned > | >to one of my ether interfaces. > | > > | >When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel is used as a > | >source address. I don't get ping responses back (presumably because > | >www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given that the address > | >it is getting is not routed). > | > | What it is doing is correct, and all implementations do this. They take the > | IP address of the closest egress interface, being your tunnel. > | > | This is generally a good thing, as if you have a machine with a RFC-1918 > | address on fxp0, and an internet wide interface on ppp0, you don't want to > | source packets out ppp0 with the IP address of fxp0. Put in this > | perspective, it makes more sense. :-) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > From: "Jeroen Massar" > To: "'David Waitzman'" , <6bone@mailman.isi.edu> > Subject: RE: [6bone] freebsd src addr wrong > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:27:08 +0100 > Organization: Unfix > > David Waitzman wrote: > > > I have a 6bone tunnel connection with a non-routed tunnel > > endpoint 2001:: > > address. I also have an official 6bone 3ffe:: address, which > > is assigned > > to one of my ether interfaces. > > > > When I "ping6 www.kame.net" I see that my side of the tunnel > > is used as a > > source address. I don't get ping responses back (presumably because > > www.kame.net does not know where to send responses, given > > that the address > > it is getting is not routed). > > > > If I do a ping6 -S, selecting my 6bone 3ffe:: address as the > > source, then > > ping6 gets responses from kame just fine. > > > > I am using FreeBSD 4.6. > > We run Zebra-based BGP+ with our tunnel provider and thus > > have no default > > route. > > > > My questions: > > 1. Should tunnel endpoint addresses be routable? > > They should be reachable thus they should be 'routable'. > > > 2. Or how do I force FreeBSD to use the ether's IPv6 address > > as a source by > > default? (Not all applications have the equivalent of > > Ping6's -S option to > > force the source address selection.) > > Get yourself a decent OS with sourcerouting. > Also your upstream SHOULD filter out any prefixes of source addresses > not belonging to them (aka eggress filtering :). > > And yes this breaks 'multihoming', at least the way some people define > it. > > Greets, > Jeroen > > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > 6bone mailing list > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone > > > End of 6bone Digest > From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Dec 12 00:44:45 2002 From: tvo@EnterZone.Net (John Fraizer) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 19:44:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [6bone] Strage problems with BGP In-Reply-To: <39348758388.20021212012604@chabrowa.net> Message-ID: It is quite possible that your peers are overwriting your community on import. The correct/responsible thing for them to do is to tag prefixes they receive from you with NO-EXPORT themselfs. --- John Fraizer | High-Security Datacenter Services | President | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 | EnterZone, Inc | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation | http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services | On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Marcin Markowski wrote: > Hi, > > I have private ASN and i have problems, because my ASN is announced to > public routes. I have 'set community no-export' in route-map to all > peers, but that option doesn't work. Maybe someone know where is problem? > I'm using Slackware 8.1 with zebra 0.93b > Example of conf with peer: > [...] > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 remote-as 5424 > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 description ATNET-AT (router1.ipv6.atnet.at) > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 interface atnet-at > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 update-source 3ffe:8060:100::46:2 > [...] > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 activate > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 soft-reconfiguration inbound > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list bgp-i in > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list ebgp-risp-out out > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 route-map noexport-out out > [...] > route-map noexport-out permit 10 > match ipv6 address all > set community no-export > [...] > > -- > Marcin Markowski > mail: max@chabrowa.net > tel.: +48 502305580 > > _______________________________________________ > 6bone mailing list > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone > From gert@space.net Thu Dec 12 05:39:56 2002 From: gert@space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 06:39:56 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Strage problems with BGP In-Reply-To: <39348758388.20021212012604@chabrowa.net>; from max@chabrowa.net on Thu, Dec 12, 2002 at 01:26:04AM +0100 References: <39348758388.20021212012604@chabrowa.net> Message-ID: <20021212063956.H15927@Space.Net> Hi, On Thu, Dec 12, 2002 at 01:26:04AM +0100, Marcin Markowski wrote: > I have private ASN and i have problems, because my ASN is announced to > public routes. I have 'set community no-export' in route-map to all > peers, but that option doesn't work. Maybe someone know where is problem? > I'm using Slackware 8.1 with zebra 0.93b > Example of conf with peer: > [...] > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 remote-as 5424 > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 description ATNET-AT (router1.ipv6.atnet.at) > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 interface atnet-at > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 update-source 3ffe:8060:100::46:2 > [...] > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 activate > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 soft-reconfiguration inbound > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list bgp-i in > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list ebgp-risp-out out > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 route-map noexport-out out With a Cisco, you would also need: neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 send-community dunno whether this is true for Zebra as well. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 54255 (54136) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 From Marcin Markowski Thu Dec 12 07:28:25 2002 From: Marcin Markowski (Marcin Markowski) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:28:25 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Strage problems with BGP In-Reply-To: <20021212063956.H15927@Space.Net> References: <39348758388.20021212012604@chabrowa.net> <20021212063956.H15927@Space.Net> Message-ID: <8374099306.20021212082825@chabrowa.net> Thursday, December 12, 2002, 6:39:56 AM, you wrote: GD> With a Cisco, you would also need: GD> neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 send-community GD> dunno whether this is true for Zebra as well. Thank You. Now works ;) -- Marcin Markowski mail: max@chabrowa.net tel.: +48 502 305 580 From ehofmann@uu.net Thu Dec 12 07:40:22 2002 From: ehofmann@uu.net (Enno Hofmann) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:40:22 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Strage problems with BGP References: <39348758388.20021212012604@chabrowa.net> Message-ID: <3DF83D66.8050401@uu.net> Hi Marcin, can you also send your ipv6 access-list "all"? best regards, Enno Marcin Markowski wrote: > Hi, > > I have private ASN and i have problems, because my ASN is announced to > public routes. I have 'set community no-export' in route-map to all > peers, but that option doesn't work. Maybe someone know where is problem? > I'm using Slackware 8.1 with zebra 0.93b > Example of conf with peer: > [...] > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 remote-as 5424 > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 description ATNET-AT (router1.ipv6.atnet.at) > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 interface atnet-at > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 update-source 3ffe:8060:100::46:2 > [...] > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 activate > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 soft-reconfiguration inbound > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list bgp-i in > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list ebgp-risp-out out > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 route-map noexport-out out > [...] > route-map noexport-out permit 10 > match ipv6 address all > set community no-export > [...] From aridaman kaushik" Hi all, I have a doubt regarding ipv4 over ipv6 tunnel. 1. When a tunnel is configured, we configure source and destination for the tunnel. Why source address should be configured for the tunnel. Is it not sufficient to configure only destination address for the tunnel. 2. is it necessary to establish the path between source and destination explicitly before establishing a tunnel and then use this path in routing header of tunnel packet for transmitting the packet?. thanks in advance regards ari. From tvo@EnterZone.Net Thu Dec 12 14:30:24 2002 From: tvo@EnterZone.Net (John Fraizer) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:30:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [6bone] Strage problems with BGP In-Reply-To: <20021212063956.H15927@Space.Net> Message-ID: Zebra sends commmunities unless explicitly disabled. --- John Fraizer | High-Security Datacenter Services | President | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 | EnterZone, Inc | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation | http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services | On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Gert Doering wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2002 at 01:26:04AM +0100, Marcin Markowski wrote: > > I have private ASN and i have problems, because my ASN is announced to > > public routes. I have 'set community no-export' in route-map to all > > peers, but that option doesn't work. Maybe someone know where is problem? > > I'm using Slackware 8.1 with zebra 0.93b > > Example of conf with peer: > > [...] > > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 remote-as 5424 > > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 description ATNET-AT (router1.ipv6.atnet.at) > > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 interface atnet-at > > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 update-source 3ffe:8060:100::46:2 > > [...] > > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 activate > > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 soft-reconfiguration inbound > > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list bgp-i in > > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 prefix-list ebgp-risp-out out > > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 route-map noexport-out out > > With a Cisco, you would also need: > > neighbor 3ffe:8060:100::46:1 send-community > > dunno whether this is true for Zebra as well. > > Gert Doering > -- NetMaster > -- > Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 54255 (54136) > > SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 > 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 > > _______________________________________________ > 6bone mailing list > 6bone@mailman.isi.edu > http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone > From aangel@myrealbox.com Fri Dec 13 01:30:59 2002 From: aangel@myrealbox.com (Aaron J. Angel) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 19:30:59 -0600 Subject: [6bone] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20021212082103.23382.qmail@webmail26.rediffmail.com> References: <20021212082103.23382.qmail@webmail26.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <3DF93853.3000600@myrealbox.com> aridaman kaushik wrote: > Hi all, > I have a doubt regarding ipv4 over ipv6 tunnel. > > 1. When a tunnel is configured, we configure source and destination > for the tunnel. Why source address should be configured for the > tunnel. Is it not sufficient to configure only destination address for > the tunnel. The machines on which you configure the tunnel need to know their own address, or else they won't have anything to stick in the source field of the IP header. > 2. is it necessary to establish the path between source and > destination explicitly before establishing a tunnel and then use this > path in routing header of tunnel packet for transmitting the packet?. Well, you need to be able to reach the destination. Provided you can reach the destination from both ends, that's all that needs to be done. The destination address in the IP header is used to route the packet through the network to the other endpoint. From paul@clubi.ie Fri Dec 13 16:43:30 2002 From: paul@clubi.ie (Paul Jakma) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:43:30 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [6bone] Strage problems with BGP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, John Fraizer wrote: > > Zebra sends commmunities unless explicitly disabled. perhaps only for iBGP, maybe it still needs to be enabled for eBGP sessions. regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: Life is a yo-yo, and mankind ties knots in the string. From pasky@xs26.net Mon Dec 16 15:38:52 2002 From: pasky@xs26.net (Petr Baudis) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:38:52 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage Message-ID: <20021216153852.GK8732@pasky.ji.cz> Hello, we want to notify you about a XS26 service and peering outage, which is expected to occur in the next days, starting by Dec 23 2002. Due to consistent and major problems with zebra as a routing software (BGP+OSPF6) on our Points of Presence and fundamental lack of certain features we require in the routing protocols we currently use, we decided to switch the whole network to a new completely different routing software, coded by Jan Oravec specially for the Access to Six project. This software will use own special protocol for internal routing inside of the XS26 network and it will support BGP for external peerings. This software will also make it possible to finally add support for user BGP peerings and dial-up users support. Also, considerable web interface usability improvements will be done. The current XS26 network is de facto unmaintained for a few last days. Zebra didn't scale well at all and the frequency of outages and crashes of its instances on various PoPs was exceeding the critical values lately. Note that we are not aware of any problems caused to our eBGP peers because of these issues. We are fully aware of the current routing problems and outages, thus we decided to introduce the routing software as soon as possible. However, the BGP support isn't yet production-grade and we are afraid of messing up the global BGP tables, causing pan-6bone damages. Thus, we decided to keep the old bgpd running on nlams-02-01 and dkcop-0a-00 with BGP sessions to AORTA (NL and NO), advertising only ourselves and making AORTA (formerly known as CHELLO) our default route. Thus, for this period (we expect the full BGP support to be a matter of days), our prefix will be announced via AORTA and it will be our only connectivity. This way, we would also like to thank AORTA for the support and great help. Even after starting up our BGP implementation we will announce only our prefix (we won't provide transit) for some time, while we will be testing it carefully. We expect to proceed with re-establishment of the BGP peerings slowly and carefully, as we don't want to harm connectivity of other sites or pollute the global BGP table with bogus entries. Also, we will take this opportunity and give full-transit only to those who will actually want it explicitly. If you would notice any such behaviour, please notify us in case we would not notice that immediately. We hope that the transition problems will be minimal, but it's expectable that since the software was not tested on any other production network yet, there will be maybe some problems and further outages. Please bear with us, we will try to correct any problems as soon as possible. Kind regards, Petr Baudis (on behalf of the XS26 team) From pim@ipng.nl Mon Dec 16 16:06:53 2002 From: pim@ipng.nl (Pim van Pelt) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:06:53 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: <20021216153852.GK8732@pasky.ji.cz> References: <20021216153852.GK8732@pasky.ji.cz> Message-ID: <20021216160653.GA20992@bfib.colo.bit.nl> | Due to consistent and major problems with zebra as a routing software | (BGP+OSPF6) on our Points of Presence and fundamental lack of certain features | we require in the routing protocols we currently use, we decided to switch the | whole network to a new completely different routing software, coded by Jan | Oravec specially for the Access to Six project. This software will use own | special protocol for internal routing inside of the XS26 network and it will | support BGP for external peerings. This software will also make it possible to | finally add support for user BGP peerings and dial-up users support. Also, | considerable web interface usability improvements will be done. Petr, Which 'major problems' do you have with bgpd/ospf6d ? I have been running this succesfully since the day I enabled it. I've seen succesful adjacencies being built between Zebra boxes, Zebra/Cisco, and Zebra/Juniper machines. You plan to run proprietary software due to lack of support ? May we also know which support you are referring to and why the current set of routing protocols is not good enough ? I'd be interrested in hearing your motivations. | Even after starting up our BGP implementation we will announce only our | prefix (we won't provide transit) for some time, while we will be testing it | carefully. We expect to proceed with re-establishment of the BGP peerings | slowly and carefully, as we don't want to harm connectivity of other sites or | pollute the global BGP table with bogus entries. Also, we will take this | opportunity and give full-transit only to those who will actually want it | explicitly. Good luck with your BGP implementation! I'll surely notify you if I see anything strange from the AS's I maintain. groet, Pim -- ---------- - - - - -+- - - - - ---------- Pim van Pelt Email: pim@ipng.nl http://www.ipng.nl/ IPv6 Deployment ----------------------------------------------- From pasky@xs26.net Mon Dec 16 17:03:47 2002 From: pasky@xs26.net (Petr Baudis) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 18:03:47 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: <20021216160653.GA20992@bfib.colo.bit.nl> References: <20021216153852.GK8732@pasky.ji.cz> <20021216160653.GA20992@bfib.colo.bit.nl> Message-ID: <20021216170347.GP8732@pasky.ji.cz> Dear diary, on Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 05:06:53PM CET, I got a letter, where Pim van Pelt told me, that... > Petr, Hello Pim, > Which 'major problems' do you have with bgpd/ospf6d ? I have been > running this succesfully since the day I enabled it. I've seen succesful > adjacencies being built between Zebra boxes, Zebra/Cisco, and > Zebra/Juniper machines. we were encountering numerous of frequently rather subtle bugs in both ospf6d and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few minutes to weeks) and topology mess-ups (OSPFv3 tree broken into several parts not connecting together, BGP connection sometimes not working over the OSPFv3 connections), we experienced problems with syncing of kernel and zebra's routing tables, strange deadlocks caused by reading/writing to blocking fds, 90% of the routes suddenly being routed to eth0 (while all the peerings were over tunnels) and number of other problems. Also, there are some portability problems, especially on FreeBSD we had visibly more problems than on ie. Linux. Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the networks which change very dynamically (our iBGP table changes very frequently as user prefixes appear and disappear; it's also relatively big (in the 6bone world, at least ;) because of the user prefixes present there). I must admit that I don't have enough overview to provide further technical details about the problems, please ask Jan about them (he maintains our version of zebra (available at http://www.xs26.net/zebra/)). > You plan to run proprietary software due to lack of support ? May we > also know which support you are referring to and why the current set of > routing protocols is not good enough ? I'd be interrested in hearing > your motivations. The protocol will mainly reflect the environment, that is tunneled connections and very dynamic routing tables. The tunneled connections mean that as the IPv4 network routing changes, the latency changes, thus the protocol supports dynamic computing of the connection latency. This is essential for us and if we would implement this with OSPF, it would cause routing storms and OSPF routing table would never converge. Contrary to OSPF, our routers will keep full state about the connections, thus they will be able to maintain the routing structure much better and cope with the frequent changes. Also, reduction from OSPF+iBGP to just one protocol will reduce the number of points of failure, simplify the routing infrastructure and maintenance of the network. BTW, we didn't decide on the license yet. Also, the software switch will greatly simplify our current distributed operation and will allow us to implement much more simply features like user BGP peering and dial-up tunnels. Oh, I mentioned that already... > | Even after starting up our BGP implementation we will announce only our > | prefix (we won't provide transit) for some time, while we will be testing it > | carefully. We expect to proceed with re-establishment of the BGP peerings > | slowly and carefully, as we don't want to harm connectivity of other sites or > | pollute the global BGP table with bogus entries. Also, we will take this > | opportunity and give full-transit only to those who will actually want it > | explicitly. > Good luck with your BGP implementation! I'll surely notify you if I see > anything strange from the AS's I maintain. Thanks! Kind regards, -- Petr "Pasky" Baudis (and Jan "WSX" Oravec ;-) . > I don't know why people still want ACL's. There were noises about them for > samba, but I'v enot heard anything since. Are vendors using this? Because People Are Stupid(tm). Because it's cheaper to put "ACL support: yes" in the feature list under "Security" than to make sure than userland can cope with anything more complex than "Me Og. Og see directory. Directory Og's. Nobody change it". C.f. snake oil, P.T.Barnum and esp. LSM users -- Al Viro . Crap: http://pasky.ji.cz/ From bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net Mon Dec 16 20:26:00 2002 From: bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net (Stephane Bortzmeyer) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 21:26:00 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: <20021216170347.GP8732@pasky.ji.cz> (Petr Baudis 's message of Mon, 16 Dec 2002 18:03:47 +0100) Message-ID: <200212162026.gBGKQ0QW009099@ludwigV.sources.org> On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3, Petr Baudis wrote: > and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few minutes to > weeks) A funny things about distributed systems is the difference in testimonies :-) We never had a Zebra crash. > connections), we experienced problems with syncing of kernel and zebra's > routing tables, We have similar problems, too. > problems, especially on FreeBSD we had visibly more problems than on ie. Linux. I do not have personal experience with Zebra on FreeBSD but, on the Zebra mailing list, you can clearly see there are far more FreeBSD users than Linux ones so I doubt that Zebra is much worse on FreeBSD. > Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the networks which change very > dynamically (our iBGP table changes very frequently as user prefixes appear and > disappear; it's also relatively big (in the 6bone world, at least ;) We use Zebra for default-free routers on the IPv4 Internet. The 6 bone is a very small experiment when you compare it to the always-changing 100k routes of the IPv4 Internet. From andrew@asol.com.ph Tue Dec 17 00:53:16 2002 From: andrew@asol.com.ph (Madrigallos, Andrew G.) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:53:16 +0800 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage References: <200212162026.gBGKQ0QW009099@ludwigV.sources.org> Message-ID: <001601c2a566$b3536730$50ffafca@andrew> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2A5A9.BD631AC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm using FreeBSD with zebra software but I never had a problem using it = on IPv6, I also use FreeBSD with zebra on a EBGP connection on IPv4. Andrew ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer=20 To: Petr Baudis=20 Cc: Pim van Pelt ; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu ; xs26@xs26.net=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 4:26 Andrew Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage=20 On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3,=20 Petr Baudis wrote: > and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few = minutes to > weeks)=20 A funny things about distributed systems is the difference in = testimonies :-)=20 We never had a Zebra crash. > connections), we experienced problems with syncing of kernel and = zebra's > routing tables, We have similar problems, too. > problems, especially on FreeBSD we had visibly more problems than on = ie. Linux. I do not have personal experience with Zebra on FreeBSD but, on the = Zebra=20 mailing list, you can clearly see there are far more FreeBSD users = than Linux=20 ones so I doubt that Zebra is much worse on FreeBSD. > Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the networks which = change very > dynamically (our iBGP table changes very frequently as user prefixes = appear and > disappear; it's also relatively big (in the 6bone world, at least ;) = We use Zebra for default-free routers on the IPv4 Internet. The 6 bone = is a=20 very small experiment when you compare it to the always-changing 100k = routes=20 of the IPv4 Internet. _______________________________________________ 6bone mailing list 6bone@mailman.isi.edu http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2A5A9.BD631AC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm using FreeBSD with zebra software but I never = had a=20 problem using it on IPv6, I also use FreeBSD with zebra on a EBGP = connection on=20 IPv4.
 
Andrew
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Stephane=20 Bortzmeyer
Cc: Pim van Pelt ; 6bone@mailman.isi.edu ; xs26@xs26.net =
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, = 2002 4:26=20 Andrew
Subject: Re: [6bone] [NOTIFY] = XS26=20 service/peering outage

On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3,
Petr Baudis = <pasky@xs26.net> = wrote:

> and=20 bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few minutes=20 to
> weeks)

A funny things about distributed systems is = the=20 difference in testimonies :-)
We never had a Zebra = crash.

>=20 connections), we experienced problems with syncing of kernel and=20 zebra's
> routing tables,

We have similar problems,=20 too.

> problems, especially on FreeBSD we had visibly more = problems=20 than on ie. Linux.

I do not have personal experience with Zebra = on=20 FreeBSD but, on the Zebra
mailing list, you can clearly see there = are far=20 more FreeBSD users than Linux
ones so I doubt that Zebra is much = worse on=20 FreeBSD.

> Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the = networks which change very
> dynamically (our iBGP table changes = very=20 frequently as user prefixes appear and
> disappear; it's also = relatively=20 big (in the 6bone world, at least ;)

We use Zebra for = default-free=20 routers on the IPv4 Internet. The 6 bone is a
very small = experiment when=20 you compare it to the always-changing 100k routes
of the IPv4=20 = Internet.



_______________________________________________<= BR>6bone=20 mailing list
6bone@mailman.isi.edu
http://mailman.isi= .edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2A5A9.BD631AC0-- From Jan Oravec Tue Dec 17 10:14:53 2002 From: Jan Oravec (Jan Oravec) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:14:53 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: <200212162026.gBGKQ0QW009099@ludwigV.sources.org> References: <20021216170347.GP8732@pasky.ji.cz> <200212162026.gBGKQ0QW009099@ludwigV.sources.org> Message-ID: <20021217101453.GA28421@wsx.ksp.sk> On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 09:26:00PM +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3, > Petr Baudis wrote: > > > and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few minutes to > > weeks) > > A funny things about distributed systems is the difference in testimonies :-) > We never had a Zebra crash. You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048 interfaces, having 2k static routes redistributed into BGP, 10k internal BGP routes, about 200 prefixes in IGP and about 300 external BGP routes. The result: CPU time of ospf6d reached sometimes ~100%, zebra was unable to save config files, zebra sometimes freezed for 5 minutes or so making ospf6d and bgpd also freeze, sometimes something crashed and so on. Zebra is not ready for production networks. > > problems, especially on FreeBSD we had visibly more problems than on ie. Linux. > > I do not have personal experience with Zebra on FreeBSD but, on the Zebra > mailing list, you can clearly see there are far more FreeBSD users than Linux > ones so I doubt that Zebra is much worse on FreeBSD. e.g. this one FreeBSD-only bug: you create interface in the system and in order to zebra know about it, you have to restart zebra completely... imagine doing 100 such changes a day... your BGP peers won't like you :)... fortunatelly we have found an ugly way how to solve this... > > Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the networks which change very > > dynamically (our iBGP table changes very frequently as user prefixes appear and > > disappear; it's also relatively big (in the 6bone world, at least ;) > > We use Zebra for default-free routers on the IPv4 Internet. The 6 bone is a > very small experiment when you compare it to the always-changing 100k routes > of the IPv4 Internet. We have 10k always-changing routes in the IPv6. BGP implementation is relatively good if you don't dynamically add/remove interfaces. We are not saying zebra is bad, we just say it is not usable in our environment. Best Regards, -- Jan Oravec XS26 coordinator 6COM s.r.o. 'Access to IPv6' http://www.6com.sk http://www.xs26.net +421-903-316905 From bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net Tue Dec 17 10:33:22 2002 From: bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net (Stephane Bortzmeyer) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:33:22 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: <20021217101453.GA28421@wsx.ksp.sk> References: <20021216170347.GP8732@pasky.ji.cz> <200212162026.gBGKQ0QW009099@ludwigV.sources.org> <20021217101453.GA28421@wsx.ksp.sk> Message-ID: <20021217103322.GB27824@nic.fr> On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 11:14:53AM +0100, Jan Oravec wrote a message of 54 lines which said: > You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048 > interfaces, Thanks God, no. > Zebra is not ready for production networks. Proof of falseness: many production (i.e. not the 6bone) networks use it. > We are not saying zebra is bad, we just say it is not usable in our > environment. Yes, in *your* environment (most production routers have only < 10 interfaces, all of them physical, so adding or removing one on a PC makes the router restarts, anyway). From tvo@EnterZone.Net Tue Dec 17 19:04:41 2002 From: tvo@EnterZone.Net (John Fraizer) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:04:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: <20021217101453.GA28421@wsx.ksp.sk> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jan Oravec wrote: > On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 09:26:00PM +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > > On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3, > > Petr Baudis wrote: > > > > > and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few minutes to > > > weeks) > > > > A funny things about distributed systems is the difference in testimonies :-) > > We never had a Zebra crash. > > You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048 interfaces, having > 2k static routes redistributed into BGP, 10k internal BGP routes, about 200 > prefixes in IGP and about 300 external BGP routes. Find me, outside of 6bone, *ANY* quasi-production router, I'm talking about on the entire planet, that has 2048 interfaces. This sounds like more a problem of you should be splitting that interface load between many routers than one of there being a problem with Zebra. > The result: CPU time of ospf6d reached sometimes ~100%, zebra was unable to > save config files, zebra sometimes freezed for 5 minutes or so making ospf6d > and bgpd also freeze, sometimes something crashed and so on. I don't doubt it. Have you tried to do the same on a 7513? I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that it will croak on that interface count as well and that the SPF calculation will take forever, delaying convergence, and that it will burn proc like it was going out of style. > > Zebra is not ready for production networks. > I beg to differ. Your "network" from what ou've described, is under-engineered. What was the purpose again of terminating 2000+ endpoints on a single router again? You can't seriously think that any true production (BTW: most of us consider production to be equal to billable) network architect would put that many eggs in one basket can you? > > > problems, especially on FreeBSD we had visibly more problems than on ie. Linux. > > > > I do not have personal experience with Zebra on FreeBSD but, on the Zebra > > mailing list, you can clearly see there are far more FreeBSD users than Linux > > ones so I doubt that Zebra is much worse on FreeBSD. > > e.g. this one FreeBSD-only bug: you create interface in the system and in > order to zebra know about it, you have to restart zebra completely... > imagine doing 100 such changes a day... your BGP peers won't like you :)... > fortunatelly we have found an ugly way how to solve this... > Jan, forgive me if I'm wrong but, I don't recall seeing you post about this problem on the Zebra mailing list. If you did, can you reference the archive? > > > > Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the networks which change very > > > dynamically (our iBGP table changes very frequently as user prefixes appear and > > > disappear; it's also relatively big (in the 6bone world, at least ;) > > > > We use Zebra for default-free routers on the IPv4 Internet. The 6 bone is a > > very small experiment when you compare it to the always-changing 100k routes > > of the IPv4 Internet. > > We have 10k always-changing routes in the IPv6. BGP implementation is > relatively good if you don't dynamically add/remove interfaces. > Again, that sounds like an implementation issue in your network. Let us assume you are routing out of 5 cities (example) Router-1 3ffe:80e0:0000::/36 Router-2 3ffe:80e0:1000::/36 Router-3 3ffe:80e0:2000::/36 Router-4 3ffe:80e0:3000::/36 Router-5 3ffe:80e0:4000::/36 All of these routers can announce your aggregate 3ffe:80e0::/28 to their eBGP peers while announcing the specific "pool" /36 they assing tunnel space from into iBGP/IGP. An IGP route to 3ffe:80e0:0000::/36 will still attract traffic destined to 3ffe:80e0:0fff::/48 and there is no need for the more specific ::/48 route in the IGP or via iBGP announcement to the other routers in the AS. If you are not assigning each router a "pool" from which you assign tunnel space, NLA assignments, etc from, you are making your network topology much more complicated than it needs to be. The interface problem is another story but again, as you stated, it is an issue with freebds and NOT one with Zebra. I the OS doesn't properly report interface changes, you can't expect Zebra to keep up. > We are not saying zebra is bad, we just say it is not usable in our > environment. Actually, you did say that Zebra was bad. You didn't use those words but, it was abundantly clear that you were implying that it was bad. I would like to stress that I don't know of any routing suite that is going to be happy in the environment I'm picturing based on your description of your network topology. Perhaps you might look into that a bit. --- John Fraizer | High-Security Datacenter Services | President | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 | EnterZone, Inc | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation | http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services | From jesper@skriver.dk Tue Dec 17 19:36:04 2002 From: jesper@skriver.dk (Jesper Skriver) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:36:04 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: References: <20021217101453.GA28421@wsx.ksp.sk> Message-ID: <20021217193604.GA74372@skriver.dk> On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 02:04:41PM -0500, John Fraizer wrote: > On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jan Oravec wrote: > > > On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 09:26:00PM +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > > > > > On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3, Petr Baudis > > > wrote: > > > > > > > and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few > > > > minutes to weeks) > > > > > > A funny things about distributed systems is the difference in > > > testimonies :-) We never had a Zebra crash. > > > > You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048 > > interfaces, having 2k static routes redistributed into BGP, 10k > > internal BGP routes, about 200 prefixes in IGP and about 300 > > external BGP routes. > > Find me, outside of 6bone, *ANY* quasi-production router, I'm talking > about on the entire planet, that has 2048 interfaces. That is easily doable on a dial or DSL aggregation router ... We have several boxes with more than 5000 interfaces. /Jesper -- Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk - CCIE #5456 Senior network engineer @ AS3292, TDC Tele Danmark One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them, One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them. From gert@space.net Tue Dec 17 19:50:42 2002 From: gert@space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:50:42 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: ; from tvo@EnterZone.Net on Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 02:04:41PM -0500 References: <20021217101453.GA28421@wsx.ksp.sk> Message-ID: <20021217205042.L15927@Space.Net> Hi, On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 02:04:41PM -0500, John Fraizer wrote: > > You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048 interfaces, having > > 2k static routes redistributed into BGP, 10k internal BGP routes, about 200 > > prefixes in IGP and about 300 external BGP routes. > > Find me, outside of 6bone, *ANY* quasi-production router, I'm talking > about on the entire planet, that has 2048 interfaces. Not *that* unusual for ATM VC or L2TP terminating equipment. Very high, but for big DSL ISPs, quite well possible. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 54423 (54255) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Dec 17 20:39:22 2002 From: pekkas@netcore.fi (Pekka Savola) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 22:39:22 +0200 (EET) Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, John Fraizer wrote: > I beg to differ. Your "network" from what ou've described, is > under-engineered. What was the purpose again of terminating 2000+ > endpoints on a single router again? You can't seriously think that any > true production (BTW: most of us consider production to be equal to > billable) network architect would put that many eggs in one basket can > you? I'm not sure if 2000+ endpoints is _necessarily_ a bad thing, but ... if you really want to route them reliably, I'd put them in a separate box with only an aggregate route out to the real non-terminating router. 2000+ highly dynamic interfaces, each causing IGP/EGP recalculations is umm.. BAD. -- Pekka Savola "Tell me of difficulties surmounted, Netcore Oy not those you stumble over and fall" Systems. Networks. Security. -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords From bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net Tue Dec 17 21:08:18 2002 From: bortzmeyer@gitoyen.net (Stephane Bortzmeyer) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 22:08:18 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: (John Fraizer 's message of Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:04:41 EST) Message-ID: <200212172108.gBHL8IqZ008976@ludwigV.sources.org> On Tuesday 17 December 2002, at 14 h 4, John Fraizer wrote: > Let us assume you are routing out of 5 cities (example) > > Router-1 > 3ffe:80e0:0000::/36 > > Router-2 > 3ffe:80e0:1000::/36 ... > All of these routers can announce your aggregate 3ffe:80e0::/28 to their > eBGP peers while announcing the specific "pool" /36 they assing tunnel > space from into iBGP/IGP. The main problem with this addressing scheme is that your customers will have to renumber if they move to another city. May be unavoidable but nevertheless annoying. From tvo@EnterZone.Net Tue Dec 17 21:15:46 2002 From: tvo@EnterZone.Net (John Fraizer) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:15:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: <200212172108.gBHL8IqZ008976@ludwigV.sources.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > On Tuesday 17 December 2002, at 14 h 4, > John Fraizer wrote: > > > Let us assume you are routing out of 5 cities (example) > > > > Router-1 > > 3ffe:80e0:0000::/36 > > > > Router-2 > > 3ffe:80e0:1000::/36 > ... > > All of these routers can announce your aggregate 3ffe:80e0::/28 to their > > eBGP peers while announcing the specific "pool" /36 they assing tunnel > > space from into iBGP/IGP. > > The main problem with this addressing scheme is that your customers > will have to renumber if they move to another city. > > May be unavoidable but nevertheless annoying. > Lets see - They want free v6 service (we're talking about 6bone here)... They'll have to deal with the fact that routing policy dictates that each city in the ASN has a block of addresses from the aggregate from which space is assigned. If they don't like it, they can get their own _portable_ address space. Sorry. I don't, nor will I ever, overcomplicate network topology when the only "good" thing it yields is easy portability for non-paying sunscribers. Call me mean. --- John Fraizer | High-Security Datacenter Services | President | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 | EnterZone, Inc | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation | http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services | From pekkas@netcore.fi Tue Dec 17 21:47:27 2002 From: pekkas@netcore.fi (Pekka Savola) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:47:27 +0200 (EET) Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: <20021217193604.GA74372@skriver.dk> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jesper Skriver wrote: [...] > That is easily doable on a dial or DSL aggregation router ... > > We have several boxes with more than 5000 interfaces. When a link goes up/down on one of those interfaces, does it trigger an IGP/EGP event? Thought so... :-) -- Pekka Savola "Tell me of difficulties surmounted, Netcore Oy not those you stumble over and fall" Systems. Networks. Security. -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords From tvo@EnterZone.Net Tue Dec 17 22:06:00 2002 From: tvo@EnterZone.Net (John Fraizer) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 17:06:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Pekka Savola wrote: > On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jesper Skriver wrote: > [...] > > That is easily doable on a dial or DSL aggregation router ... > > > > We have several boxes with more than 5000 interfaces. > > When a link goes up/down on one of those interfaces, does it trigger an > IGP/EGP event? > > Thought so... :-) > > -- > Pekka Savola "Tell me of difficulties surmounted, In most cases, no. Think about it. Why on earth would you want to carry 5000 prefixes in your IGP/EGP when a single aggregate for each router will do? Why on earth, beyond the possibility of a BGP peer at the end of one of those DSL terminations (people do that?) would that effect your EGP? You don't really carry those specifics in BGP do you? If so, for what reason? If they're in your IGP, they're in your routing table. There is no reason to carry them in the EGP. IMHO, if you didn't learn it from a BGP peer or didn't originate it with a "network" statement in your BGP config, it doesn't belong in BGP. BGP != IGP. So, explain to me again why you are carrying all of those prefixes in: (1) IGP when a single aggregate for the router "block" will do. (2) EGP (BGP) I understand the having many, many interfaces will be the norm for tunnel brokers, DSLAMs, etc. Having many, many IGP prefixes and thrash as result of those many many interfaces is NOT a requirement though, if you _design_ your network appropriately for the task you are requireing of it. --- John Fraizer | High-Security Datacenter Services | President | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 | EnterZone, Inc | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation | http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services | From michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us Wed Dec 18 03:27:22 2002 From: michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us (Michel Py) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 19:27:22 -0800 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage Message-ID: <2B81403386729140A3A899A8B39B046405E533@server2000> > John Fraizier wrote: > Find me, outside of 6bone, *ANY* quasi-production > router, I'm talking about on the entire planet, that > has 2048 interfaces. I don't know on which planet you live but on Earth this is quite common with Cisco access servers, for example. 2K interfaces is actually not a lot from the management perspective, on a loaded 5800 it could be much more. Michel. From pim@ipng.nl Wed Dec 18 08:00:02 2002 From: pim@ipng.nl (Pim van Pelt) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:00:02 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: References: <200212172108.gBHL8IqZ008976@ludwigV.sources.org> Message-ID: <20021218080002.GA14597@bfib.colo.bit.nl> | Lets see - They want free v6 service (we're talking about 6bone | here)... They'll have to deal with the fact that routing policy dictates | that each city in the ASN has a block of addresses from the aggregate from | which space is assigned. | | If they don't like it, they can get their own _portable_ address space. | | Sorry. I don't, nor will I ever, overcomplicate network topology when the | only "good" thing it yields is easy portability for non-paying | sunscribers. Here's an important difference between you (and me) on the one hand, and XS26 people on the other hand. They have set out to have a /48 per person, and let them migrate these prefixes between cities, indeed. This way, nobody has to renumber. Mind you, a tunnel up/down event (gif or sit), did not trigger SPF recalculations when I tried it back in 1999. This might have changed in the meanwhile. Coming back to the original post, I too have seen Zebra forget to write routing updates to the kernel, so that the bgpd's view on the FIB was different to the kernel's view on the FIB. That sucked, and only an entire restart of bgpd solved this. I consider it a bug in zebra, but a rare one which only surfaced like, once in the last two years. Anyway, good luck with your new routing suite, perhaps you can opensource it so other people can learn from it! groet, Pim -- ---------- - - - - -+- - - - - ---------- Pim van Pelt Email: pim@ipng.nl http://www.ipng.nl/ IPv6 Deployment ----------------------------------------------- From jesper@skriver.dk Wed Dec 18 08:22:45 2002 From: jesper@skriver.dk (Jesper Skriver) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:22:45 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021218082245.GA94549@skriver.dk> On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 05:06:00PM -0500, John Fraizer wrote: > In most cases, no. > > Think about it. Why on earth would you want to carry 5000 prefixes in > your IGP/EGP when a single aggregate for each router will do? > > Why on earth, beyond the possibility of a BGP peer at the end of one > of those DSL terminations (people do that?) would that effect your > EGP? > > You don't really carry those specifics in BGP do you? Ofcause I do, my IGP is strictly for carrying loopback addresses, used for (i)BGP next-hop's, everything else is in BGP. > If so, for what reason? If they're in your IGP, they're in your > routing table. There is no reason to carry them in the EGP. You want your IGP to be stable and fast, thus you don't want to carry customer routes in your IGP. > IMHO, if you didn't learn it from a BGP peer or didn't originate it > with a "network" statement in your BGP config, it doesn't belong in > BGP. BGP != IGP. Se above, which is what most large service providers do. /Jesper -- Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk - CCIE #5456 Senior network engineer @ AS3292, TDC Tele Danmark One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them, One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them. From yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp Wed Dec 18 09:51:32 2002 From: yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp (Yasuhiro Ohara) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:51:32 +0900 (JST) Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: <20021217101453.GA28421@wsx.ksp.sk> References: <20021216170347.GP8732@pasky.ji.cz> <200212162026.gBGKQ0QW009099@ludwigV.sources.org> <20021217101453.GA28421@wsx.ksp.sk> Message-ID: <20021218.185132.68905338.yasu@sfc.wide.ad.jp> > You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048 interfaces, having > 2k static routes redistributed into BGP, 10k internal BGP routes, about 200 > prefixes in IGP and about 300 external BGP routes. > > The result: CPU time of ospf6d reached sometimes ~100%, zebra was unable to > save config files, zebra sometimes freezed for 5 minutes or so making ospf6d > and bgpd also freeze, sometimes something crashed and so on. > > Zebra is not ready for production networks. Ok, it will be the problem of ospf6d, not bgpd. Current Zebra ospf6d lacks some support, that needed in this case may be multiple Router-LSA origination by one router. ospf6d cannot originate it that way and cannot calculate them originated from the other router that way. Another concern I have is that in the SPF calculation, ospf6d uses simple insert sort of sequential list. LSDB lookup is now using patricia tree (lib/table.[ch]) and should not be a problem. Both is related to the size of the network (not related to the interface number each router has). I guess, bgpd has no problem in your case. My take is that either ospf6d interferes the bgpd from working correct, or it it just a file descriptor limit problem. File descriptor problem is the one we WIDE Project experienced and it came just fine when we change the file descriptor limit bigger in the OS configuration. Also the problem you encounter will be none of OSPFv3 protocol problem. But I'm interested in your IGP, is it link-state ? I plan to rewrite ospf6d to have it full support of OSPFv3 and other OSPF extentions by the end of Apr 2003. This time I'm serious ;p) regards, yasu From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Wed Dec 18 13:41:07 2002 From: kim@tac.nyc.ny.us (Kimmo Suominen) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:41:07 -0500 Subject: [6bone] zebra/bgpd/kernel sync In-Reply-To: <20021218080002.GA14597@bfib.colo.bit.nl> from Pim van Pelt on Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:00:02 +0100 References: <200212172108.gBHL8IqZ008976@ludwigV.sources.org> <20021218080002.GA14597@bfib.colo.bit.nl> Message-ID: <20021218134108.08E687E4C@beowulf.gw.com> I've seen this happen occasionally, too, on its own. But a sure way to cause this problem seems to be restarting bgpd without restarting zebra. Now I always make sure to kill bgpd kill zebra start zebra start bgpd This problem did not exist with the earliest zebra version I've run... Regards, + Kim | From: Pim van Pelt | Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:00:02 +0100 | | Coming back to the original post, I too have seen Zebra forget to write | routing updates to the kernel, so that the bgpd's view on the FIB was | different to the kernel's view on the FIB. That sucked, and only an | entire restart of bgpd solved this. I consider it a bug in zebra, but | a rare one which only surfaced like, once in the last two years. From pasky@xs26.net Wed Dec 18 16:07:30 2002 From: pasky@xs26.net (Petr Baudis) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:07:30 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: References: <20021217101453.GA28421@wsx.ksp.sk> Message-ID: <20021218160730.GU8732@pasky.ji.cz> Dear diary, on Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 08:04:41PM CET, I got a letter, where John Fraizer told me, that... > On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jan Oravec wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 09:26:00PM +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > > > On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3, > > > Petr Baudis wrote: > > > > > > > and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few minutes to > > > > weeks) > > > > > > A funny things about distributed systems is the difference in testimonies :-) > > > We never had a Zebra crash. > > > > You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048 interfaces, having > > 2k static routes redistributed into BGP, 10k internal BGP routes, about 200 > > prefixes in IGP and about 300 external BGP routes. > > Find me, outside of 6bone, *ANY* quasi-production router, I'm talking > about on the entire planet, that has 2048 interfaces. > > This sounds like more a problem of you should be splitting that interface > load between many routers than one of there being a problem with Zebra. Please let me describe what XS26 is: We're a so-called distributed tunnel broker. That is, we provide unified web interface for user, where she can create certain set of tunnels through different PoPs (few in Europe, one in US) and then register a /48 zone and route it through the tunnel (usually only one of them, but she can also let it be routed through several tunnels on different PoPs). Inevitably, there is much higher number of people wanting a tunnel than those donating us a server to act as a PoP. Thus, on each PoP there will be a large number of tunnel interfaces; those better connected will also obviously have larger number of tunnel interfaces allocated than those with worse connectivity. It is kind of difficult to split that interface load between many routers as we do not have many routers. We don't make any money, we don't eat any money, all the PoPs are volunteered by various companies and/or people (usually network admins of that companies) interested in helping with the IPv6 deployment. Obviously, you are welcomed to help us with this splitting of the load... ;-) ..snip.. > > Zebra is not ready for production networks. > > > > I beg to differ. Your "network" from what ou've described, is > under-engineered. What was the purpose again of terminating 2000+ > endpoints on a single router again? You can't seriously think that any > true production (BTW: most of us consider production to be equal to > billable) network architect would put that many eggs in one basket can > you? See above for explanation why we do it like this. I agree that the "production networks" statement was maybe too radical. ..snip.. > > > > Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the networks which change very > > > > dynamically (our iBGP table changes very frequently as user prefixes appear and > > > > disappear; it's also relatively big (in the 6bone world, at least ;) > > > > > > We use Zebra for default-free routers on the IPv4 Internet. The 6 bone is a > > > very small experiment when you compare it to the always-changing 100k routes > > > of the IPv4 Internet. > > > > We have 10k always-changing routes in the IPv6. BGP implementation is > > relatively good if you don't dynamically add/remove interfaces. > > > > Again, that sounds like an implementation issue in your network. ..snip.. > If you are not assigning each router a "pool" from which you assign tunnel > space, NLA assignments, etc from, you are making your network topology > much more complicated than it needs to be. The idea behind our system is to make addressing independent on the PoP. This gives us: * easy migration between PoPs; this actually appears to be very important, from our observations a lot of the people were making use of this * this implies also "immortality" of the zone assignments, even in case a PoP is down (service outage or leaving XS26, which inevitably happens sometimes, given our organization) * possibility to make tunnels to more PoPs; currently, this gives you some loadbalancing of the incoming traffic; we plan to implement BGP peering with users, then this will be even more important ..snip.. > I would like to stress that I don't know of any routing suite that is > going to be happy in the environment I'm picturing based on your > description of your network topology. Perhaps you might look into that a > bit. Yes, that's why we are making our own :-). -- Petr "Pasky" Baudis . > I don't know why people still want ACL's. There were noises about them for > samba, but I'v enot heard anything since. Are vendors using this? Because People Are Stupid(tm). Because it's cheaper to put "ACL support: yes" in the feature list under "Security" than to make sure than userland can cope with anything more complex than "Me Og. Og see directory. Directory Og's. Nobody change it". C.f. snake oil, P.T.Barnum and esp. LSM users -- Al Viro . Crap: http://pasky.ji.cz/ From itojun@iijlab.net Thu Dec 19 05:24:55 2002 From: itojun@iijlab.net (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 14:24:55 +0900 Subject: [6bone] rogue WinXP router problem Message-ID: <20021219052455.81E477B1@starfruit.itojun.org> at IPv6 summit venue in Japan, we see rogue IPv6 router advertising 6to4 prefix as well as site-local prefix. the implementation of the rogue router is apparently WinXP. the worst thing is that the WinXP box does not forward the packet for others, effectively working as a blackhole. question: how can we advice people w/ WinXP to configure their box, to prevent this problem from happening? are there any checkbox/dialog for it? we really need L2 device that filter rogue RAs. itojun RS 14:22:47.115021 fe80::220:e0ff:fe8d:3a8c > ff02::2: icmp6: router solicitation (src lladdr: 00:20:e0:8d:3a:8c) (len 16, hlim 255) RA from the real router 14:22:47.244701 fe80::2a0:deff:fe01:d739 > ff02::1: icmp6: router advertisement(chlim=64, pref=medium, router_ltime=1800, reachable_time=30000, retrans_time=1000)(src lladdr: 00:a0:de:01:d7:39)(mtu: mtu=1500)(prefix info: LA valid_ltime=2592000,preferred_ltime=604800,prefix=2001:218:1091::/64) (len 64, hlim 255) RA from rogue router 14:22:47.347145 fe80::202:2dff:fe43:f052 > ff02::1: icmp6: router advertisement(chlim=0, pref=low, router_ltime=7200, reachable_time=0, retrans_time=0)(src lladdr: 00:02:2d:43:f0:52)(mtu: mtu=1500)(rtinfo: 2002::/16, pref=low, lifetime=7200)(prefix info: LA valid_ltime=172800,preferred_ltime=1800,prefix=2002:c0a8:bd01:8::/64)(prefix info: LA valid_ltime=172800,preferred_ltime=1800,prefix=fec0:0:0:8::/64)(prefix info: LA valid_ltime=172800,preferred_ltime=1800,prefix=2002:c0a8:e701:8::/64) (len 144, hlim 255) From bob@thefinks.com Thu Dec 19 05:54:34 2002 From: bob@thefinks.com (Bob Fink) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:54:34 -0800 Subject: [6bone] pTLA 3FFE:3400::/24 (IPF/DE) reclaimed to pool Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20021218214421.0252ba98@imap2.es.net> 6bone Folk, The open review to reclaim the pTLA 3FFE:3400::/24 (IPF/DE) has competed with no comment and therefore this pTLA has been returned to the 6bone address pool. This pTLA will be returned to the bottom of the pool so new pTLA allocations will not use it to avoid possible filter problems. Note that this is a /24, and thus is already in a pool that no new allocations are coming from. Thanks, Bob From Jan Oravec Thu Dec 19 07:59:24 2002 From: Jan Oravec (Jan Oravec) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 08:59:24 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: References: <20021217101453.GA28421@wsx.ksp.sk> Message-ID: <20021219075923.GB16703@wsx.ksp.sk> On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 02:04:41PM -0500, John Fraizer wrote: > > On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jan Oravec wrote: > > > On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 09:26:00PM +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > > > On Monday 16 December 2002, at 18 h 3, > > > Petr Baudis wrote: > > > > > > > and bgpd. Apart random crashes in various time periods (from few minutes to > > > > weeks) > > > > > > A funny things about distributed systems is the difference in testimonies :-) > > > We never had a Zebra crash. > > > > You were probably never running zebra on router with 2048 interfaces, having > > 2k static routes redistributed into BGP, 10k internal BGP routes, about 200 > > prefixes in IGP and about 300 external BGP routes. > > Find me, outside of 6bone, *ANY* quasi-production router, I'm talking > about on the entire planet, that has 2048 interfaces. > > This sounds like more a problem of you should be splitting that interface > load between many routers than one of there being a problem with Zebra. There were static routes only on these interfaces redistributed into BGP, not IGP. We had at most 200 prefixes in IGP -- nexthops. > > The result: CPU time of ospf6d reached sometimes ~100%, zebra was unable to > > save config files, zebra sometimes freezed for 5 minutes or so making ospf6d > > and bgpd also freeze, sometimes something crashed and so on. > > I don't doubt it. Have you tried to do the same on a 7513? I'll bet a > dollar to a doughnut that it will croak on that interface count as well > and that the SPF calculation will take forever, delaying convergence, and > that it will burn proc like it was going out of style. See above, it has nothing do to with IGP. > > > > Zebra is not ready for production networks. > > > > I beg to differ. Your "network" from what ou've described, is > under-engineered. What was the purpose again of terminating 2000+ > endpoints on a single router again? You can't seriously think that any > true production (BTW: most of us consider production to be equal to > billable) network architect would put that many eggs in one basket can > you? Well, we had the same problems even with few users connected to one router. The fact that there were 2048 users terminated at one router did not generate routing-based problems, just side-effects, like unable to save config files, etc. > > > > problems, especially on FreeBSD we had visibly more problems than on ie. Linux. > > > > > > I do not have personal experience with Zebra on FreeBSD but, on the Zebra > > > mailing list, you can clearly see there are far more FreeBSD users than Linux > > > ones so I doubt that Zebra is much worse on FreeBSD. > > > > e.g. this one FreeBSD-only bug: you create interface in the system and in > > order to zebra know about it, you have to restart zebra completely... > > imagine doing 100 such changes a day... your BGP peers won't like you :)... > > fortunatelly we have found an ugly way how to solve this... > > > > Jan, forgive me if I'm wrong but, I don't recall seeing you post about > this problem on the Zebra mailing list. If you did, can you reference the > archive? Unfortunatelly I don't have enought old archive. The problem was that BSD systems did not support interface add/remove notification. I have sent PR (see http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=33747) and after adding RTM_IFANNOUNCE event I have e-mailed notification about that to Kunihiro and/or(?) zebra ML. > > > > Basically, zebra looks not to be prepared for the networks which change very > > > > dynamically (our iBGP table changes very frequently as user prefixes appear and > > > > disappear; it's also relatively big (in the 6bone world, at least ;) > > > > > > We use Zebra for default-free routers on the IPv4 Internet. The 6 bone is a > > > very small experiment when you compare it to the always-changing 100k routes > > > of the IPv4 Internet. > > > > We have 10k always-changing routes in the IPv6. BGP implementation is > > relatively good if you don't dynamically add/remove interfaces. > > > > Again, that sounds like an implementation issue in your network. > > Let us assume you are routing out of 5 cities (example) > > Router-1 > 3ffe:80e0:0000::/36 > > Router-2 > 3ffe:80e0:1000::/36 > > Router-3 > 3ffe:80e0:2000::/36 > > Router-4 > 3ffe:80e0:3000::/36 > > Router-5 > 3ffe:80e0:4000::/36 > > > All of these routers can announce your aggregate 3ffe:80e0::/28 to their > eBGP peers while announcing the specific "pool" /36 they assing tunnel > space from into iBGP/IGP. > > An IGP route to 3ffe:80e0:0000::/36 will still attract traffic destined to > 3ffe:80e0:0fff::/48 and there is no need for the more specific ::/48 route > in the IGP or via iBGP announcement to the other routers in the AS. > > If you are not assigning each router a "pool" from which you assign tunnel > space, NLA assignments, etc from, you are making your network topology > much more complicated than it needs to be. We want our users to be able to move between PoPs without changing their assignment. It is obviously more complicated, but possible. Better than making simple solutions for us it to make a solution that is simple for users. We have enought skills to do that and it is worth of month of coding new routing software. > > The interface problem is another story but again, as you stated, it is an > issue with freebds and NOT one with Zebra. I the OS doesn't properly > report interface changes, you can't expect Zebra to keep up. It does. At least for 11 months. > > We are not saying zebra is bad, we just say it is not usable in our > > environment. > > Actually, you did say that Zebra was bad. You didn't use those words but, > it was abundantly clear that you were implying that it was bad. > > I would like to stress that I don't know of any routing suite that is > going to be happy in the environment I'm picturing based on your > description of your network topology. Perhaps you might look into that a > bit. I do not know about any too, when we try our software, I will post a message about results. -- Jan Oravec XS26 coordinator 6COM s.r.o. 'Access to IPv6' http://www.6com.sk http://www.xs26.net +421-903-316905 From Jan Oravec Thu Dec 19 08:00:32 2002 From: Jan Oravec (Jan Oravec) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:00:32 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: References: <20021217193604.GA74372@skriver.dk> Message-ID: <20021219080032.GC16703@wsx.ksp.sk> On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 11:47:27PM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote: > On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Jesper Skriver wrote: > [...] > > That is easily doable on a dial or DSL aggregation router ... > > > > We have several boxes with more than 5000 interfaces. > > When a link goes up/down on one of those interfaces, does it trigger an > IGP/EGP event? > > Thought so... :-) Again, we have static routes on these interfaces redistributed into BGP, not IGP. -- Jan Oravec XS26 coordinator 6COM s.r.o. 'Access to IPv6' http://www.6com.sk http://www.xs26.net +421-903-316905 From Jan Oravec Thu Dec 19 08:05:48 2002 From: Jan Oravec (Jan Oravec) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:05:48 +0100 Subject: [6bone] [NOTIFY] XS26 service/peering outage In-Reply-To: <20021218082245.GA94549@skriver.dk> References: <20021218082245.GA94549@skriver.dk> Message-ID: <20021219080548.GA16915@wsx.ksp.sk> On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 09:22:45AM +0100, Jesper Skriver wrote: > On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 05:06:00PM -0500, John Fraizer wrote: > > > In most cases, no. > > > > Think about it. Why on earth would you want to carry 5000 prefixes in > > your IGP/EGP when a single aggregate for each router will do? > > > > Why on earth, beyond the possibility of a BGP peer at the end of one > > of those DSL terminations (people do that?) would that effect your > > EGP? > > > > You don't really carry those specifics in BGP do you? > > Ofcause I do, my IGP is strictly for carrying loopback addresses, used > for (i)BGP next-hop's, everything else is in BGP. > > > If so, for what reason? If they're in your IGP, they're in your > > routing table. There is no reason to carry them in the EGP. > > You want your IGP to be stable and fast, thus you don't want to carry > customer routes in your IGP. > > > IMHO, if you didn't learn it from a BGP peer or didn't originate it > > with a "network" statement in your BGP config, it doesn't belong in > > BGP. BGP != IGP. > > Se above, which is what most large service providers do. Exactly what we are doing. -- Jan Oravec XS26 coordinator 6COM s.r.o. 'Access to IPv6' http://www.6com.sk http://www.xs26.net +421-903-316905 From johann@ninja.terrabionic.com Fri Dec 20 08:33:20 2002 From: johann@ninja.terrabionic.com (Johann Sharizan) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:33:20 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive? Message-ID: <20021220093319.A316@aegis.terrabionic.lan> hello to you all. i was wondering whether the 6bone web registry is functional or not. i have followed the instructions on the 6bone hookup info, exactly as described. the problem is, the so-called e-mail that is suppose to arrive in my mailbox, doesn't. i have tried signup after signup, with no luck. could the once in charge please let me know if this is due to my network? thanks. and happy holidays! -- Regards, ----[ Johann Sharizan ...............] ----[ Terrabionic :: Alliance .......] _) ----[ johann@ninja.terrabionic.com ..] | __| ----[ http://www.terrabionic.com ....] |\__ \ ----[ +47 97647484 ..................] |____/ ___/ From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Fri Dec 20 13:33:49 2002 From: kim@tac.nyc.ny.us (Kimmo Suominen) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 08:33:49 -0500 Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive? In-Reply-To: <20021220093319.A316@aegis.terrabionic.lan> from Johann Sharizan on Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:33:20 +0100 References: <20021220093319.A316@aegis.terrabionic.lan> Message-ID: <20021220133349.05E077E10@beowulf.gw.com> Hi! I have the same problem -- filled in the web form, no email came back. It's been many weeks now... Regards, + Kim | From: Johann Sharizan | Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:33:20 +0100 | | | hello to you all. | | i was wondering whether the 6bone web registry is functional or not. | | i have followed the instructions on the 6bone hookup info, exactly as | described. the problem is, the so-called e-mail that is suppose to arrive | in my mailbox, doesn't. | | i have tried signup after signup, with no luck. | | could the once in charge please let me know if this is due to my network? | | thanks. and happy holidays! | | -- | Regards, | | ----[ Johann Sharizan ...............] | ----[ Terrabionic :: Alliance .......] _) | ----[ johann@ninja.terrabionic.com ..] | __| | ----[ http://www.terrabionic.com ....] |\__ \ | ----[ +47 97647484 ..................] |____/ From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Dec 20 14:17:40 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 15:17:40 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive? In-Reply-To: <20021220093319.A316@aegis.terrabionic.lan> Message-ID: <002a01c2a832$8f267a90$210d640a@unfix.org> Johann Sharizan wrote: > hello to you all. Could you be any more specific? > i was wondering whether the 6bone web registry is functional or not. The _WEB_ registry? Do you mean the viagenie interface or the old-style mailing interface? The viagenie interface (http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml) doesn't send emails back. Only the old-style mailing interface does that. (The one described at http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html) > i have followed the instructions on the 6bone hookup info, exactly as > described. the problem is, the so-called e-mail that is > suppose to arrive > in my mailbox, doesn't. Which instructions ? Be more specific :) > i have tried signup after signup, with no luck. What did you try to signup? Which object etc.. > could the once in charge please let me know if this is due to > my network? Which network? Be more specific :) Greets, Jeroen From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Dec 20 15:47:24 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 16:47:24 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive? In-Reply-To: <20021220163442.A964@aegis.terrabionic.lan> Message-ID: <003201c2a83f$17afabf0$210d640a@unfix.org> Johann Sharizan [mailto:johann@ninja.terrabionic.com] wrote: > What's so specific about the *WEB* interface? ::} > > The specifics are described in the hookup info page. > > Listen to that other guy, he has the same problem. > > If that's not sufficient, ask him to be more specific. As you are apparently not able to specify which handle's you tried etc you are out of luck. Also the web interface nicely states: 8<-------------- Questions or comments: registry@viagenie.qc.ca -------------->8 CC'd them both so they know what you are screaming about. Apparently nothing as you don't have a handle or other information to describe it your problem. "Look *IT* doesn't work", very helpful... Greets, Jeroen > > Thanks =) > > On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 03:17:40PM +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > Johann Sharizan wrote: > > > > > hello to you all. > > > > Could you be any more specific? > > > > > i was wondering whether the 6bone web registry is > functional or not. > > > > The _WEB_ registry? > > Do you mean the viagenie interface or the old-style mailing > interface? > > The viagenie interface > > (http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/index.shtml) > > doesn't send emails back. Only the old-style mailing interface does > > that. > > (The one described at http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html) > > > > > i have followed the instructions on the 6bone hookup > info, exactly as > > > described. the problem is, the so-called e-mail that is > > > suppose to arrive > > > in my mailbox, doesn't. > > > > Which instructions ? Be more specific :) > > > > > i have tried signup after signup, with no luck. > > > > What did you try to signup? Which object etc.. > > > > > could the once in charge please let me know if this is due to > > > my network? > > > > Which network? > > > > Be more specific :) > > > > Greets, > > Jeroen > > > > > > -- > Regards, > > ----[ Johann Sharizan ...............] > ----[ Terrabionic :: Alliance .......] _) > ----[ johann@ninja.terrabionic.com ..] | __| > ----[ http://www.terrabionic.com ....] |\__ \ > ----[ +47 97647484 ..................] |____/ > ___/ > > > From johann@ninja.terrabionic.com Fri Dec 20 16:43:40 2002 From: johann@ninja.terrabionic.com (Johann Sharizan) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 17:43:40 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive? In-Reply-To: <003201c2a83f$17afabf0$210d640a@unfix.org>; from jeroen@unfix.org on Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 04:47:24PM +0100 References: <20021220163442.A964@aegis.terrabionic.lan> <003201c2a83f$17afabf0$210d640a@unfix.org> Message-ID: <20021220174340.B964@aegis.terrabionic.lan> I was just really busy preparing for the exams so I had no time to be specific. However, I'll make an exception. The registration of the persons object (Johann Sharizan/JSHA-6BONE) doesn't follow an e-mail, right? In the mntner object, I set mnt-by to Johann Sharizan leaving out the password, which I set at the bottom with my e-mail address. I keep getting this message, though I used to recieve a warning message: ############### Acknowledgement from your request: Addition of maintainer objects has to be authorized manually. Acknowledgements will be sent via e-mail. You probably entered the wrong password if you get no results between the 2 lines above. If you want to change your password and get a [NOOP] message, try again while changing another line (like the changed: field). ############### And the instructions: http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/newusers.shtml If you want me to be even more specific, that'll have to be done some other time. But thanks! -- Regards, ----[ Johann Sharizan ...............] ----[ Terrabionic :: Alliance .......] _) ----[ johann@ninja.terrabionic.com ..] | __| ----[ http://www.terrabionic.com ....] |\__ \ ----[ +47 97647484 ..................] |____/ ___/ From jeroen@unfix.org Fri Dec 20 17:01:46 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 18:01:46 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive? In-Reply-To: <20021220174340.B964@aegis.terrabionic.lan> Message-ID: <003a01c2a849$7b478980$210d640a@unfix.org> Johann Sharizan [mailto:johann@ninja.terrabionic.com] wrote: > I was just really busy preparing for the exams so I had no > time to be specific. > However, I'll make an exception. "I'll complain about something but I don't have time to tell you what to complain about" I hope they teach you better reasoning at school... alas: > The registration of the persons object (Johann > Sharizan/JSHA-6BONE) doesn't > follow an e-mail, right? In the mntner object, I set mnt-by > to Johann Sharizan > leaving out the password, which I set at the bottom with my > e-mail address. 8<------------------- $ whois -h whois.6bone.net JSHA-6BONE % RIPEdb(3.0.0b2) with ISI RPSL extensions person: Johann Sharizan address: Kanalveien 10 address: 5059 Bergen, NORWAY phone: +47 55 294729 nic-hdl: JSHA-6BONE changed: johann@ninja.terrabionic.com 20021214 source: 6BONE ------------------->8 That one works (which is why I asked for what you where doing :) Even though a "whois -h whois.6bone.net Johann Sharizan" pops that one up too, but you didn't specify what you where doing at all. > I keep getting this message, though I used to recieve a > warning message: > > ############### > > Acknowledgement from your request: > > Addition of maintainer objects has to be authorized manually. > Acknowledgements will be sent via e-mail. > > You probably entered the wrong password if you get no results > between the 2 lines above. > > If you want to change your password and get a [NOOP] message, > try again while changing another line (like the changed: field). > > ############### And indeed creating a Maintainer object takes some time as it has to be manually approved and that can take some time certainly because the team behind the 6bone db is quite busy. When it gets approved/denied you will get a message. Fortunatly you are busy with your exams so that won't bother you that much. Greets, Jeroen From kim@tac.nyc.ny.us Fri Dec 20 17:36:45 2002 From: kim@tac.nyc.ny.us (Kimmo Suominen) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 12:36:45 -0500 Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive? In-Reply-To: <003a01c2a849$7b478980$210d640a@unfix.org> from "Jeroen Massar" on Fri, 20 Dec 2002 18:01:46 +0100 References: <003a01c2a849$7b478980$210d640a@unfix.org> Message-ID: <20021220173646.ED4287E3A@beowulf.gw.com> How long is that usually? More than a month? More than two months? Not that I care -- I'm fine with waiting. But it would be nice to eventually have my tunnels say something else than "UNKNOWN". Regards, + Kim | From: "Jeroen Massar" | Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 18:01:46 +0100 | | And indeed creating a Maintainer object takes some time as it has to | be manually approved and that can take some time certainly because the | team behind the 6bone db is quite busy. When it gets approved/denied | you will get a message. Fortunatly you are busy with your exams so that | won't bother you that much. | | Greets, | Jeroen From david@IPRG.nokia.com Fri Dec 20 18:27:14 2002 From: david@IPRG.nokia.com (David Kessens) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:27:14 -0800 Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive? In-Reply-To: <20021220093319.A316@aegis.terrabionic.lan>; from johann@ninja.terrabionic.com on Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 09:33:20AM +0100 References: <20021220093319.A316@aegis.terrabionic.lan> Message-ID: <20021220102714.A27796@iprg.nokia.com> Johann, On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 09:33:20AM +0100, Johann Sharizan wrote: > > i was wondering whether the 6bone web registry is functional or not. > > i have followed the instructions on the 6bone hookup info, exactly as > described. the problem is, the so-called e-mail that is suppose to arrive > in my mailbox, doesn't. I am wondering whether your dns/mailsystem is working at all: $host ninja.terrabionic.com ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached $host terrabionic.com ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached gBJ1K4Nv002539 28 Wed Dec 18 17:20 (host map: lookup (ninja.terrabionic.com): deferred) gBJ1K4Nx002539 858 Wed Dec 18 17:20 (host map: lookup (ninja.terrabionic.com): deferred) gBILU2Nv004368 698 Wed Dec 18 13:30 (host map: lookup (ninja.terrabionic.com): deferred) gBHIe1Nv012537 749 Tue Dec 17 10:40 (host map: lookup (ninja.terrabionic.com): deferred) It is probably a good idea to check your own systems first before complaining to the list :-). Good luck, David K. --- From david@IPRG.nokia.com Fri Dec 20 18:37:29 2002 From: david@IPRG.nokia.com (David Kessens) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:37:29 -0800 Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive? In-Reply-To: <20021220173646.ED4287E3A@beowulf.gw.com>; from kim@tac.nyc.ny.us on Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 12:36:45PM -0500 References: <003a01c2a849$7b478980$210d640a@unfix.org> <20021220173646.ED4287E3A@beowulf.gw.com> Message-ID: <20021220103729.C27796@iprg.nokia.com> Kimmo, On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 12:36:45PM -0500, Kimmo Suominen wrote: > How long is that usually? More than a month? More than two months? It always takes less than 12 hours, usually even a lot less. > Not that I care -- I'm fine with waiting. But it would be nice to > eventually have my tunnels say something else than "UNKNOWN". If you experienced a problem, please contact me privately with a log of the messages that you sent - most problems are caused by people using bad email addresses etc. that bounce. I hope this helps, David K. --- From johann@ninja.terrabionic.com Sat Dec 21 12:00:16 2002 From: johann@ninja.terrabionic.com (Johann Sharizan) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 13:00:16 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive? In-Reply-To: <003a01c2a849$7b478980$210d640a@unfix.org>; from jeroen@unfix.org on Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 06:01:46PM +0100 References: <20021220174340.B964@aegis.terrabionic.lan> <003a01c2a849$7b478980$210d640a@unfix.org> Message-ID: <20021221130016.A404@aegis.terrabionic.lan> Jeroen, I apologize for not being plain and specific. So I can stop signing up for a mntner object now? ::} The tunnel broker I've chosen requires me to register with the 6bone whois database. And as far as I understand, a persons object is not enough. Guess I'll have to wait until after newyear to get my hookup. Thanks. -- Regards, ----[ Johann Sharizan ...............] ----[ Terrabionic :: Alliance .......] _) ----[ johann@ninja.terrabionic.com ..] | __| ----[ http://www.terrabionic.com ....] |\__ \ ----[ +47 97647484 ..................] |____/ ___/ From jeroen@unfix.org Sat Dec 21 14:12:06 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 15:12:06 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive? In-Reply-To: <20021221130016.A404@aegis.terrabionic.lan> Message-ID: <000901c2a8fa$f26438e0$210d640a@unfix.org> Johann Sharizan [mailto:johann@ninja.terrabionic.com] wrote: > Jeroen, > > I apologize for not being plain and specific. I only asked you for it simply because it saves a lot of questions ;) And people tend to find it easier to help and are more willing to help when they have the full set of informations required. Also as David Kessens pointed out, you might fix your DNS setup first. Checking www.foobar.tm/dns/ and entering terrabionic.com reveales some very odd things, amongst others: 8<------------ Fri Dec 20 20:02:39 UTC 2002 terrabionic.com NS ns2.terrabionic.com Nameserver ns2.terrabionic.com not running terrabionic.com SOA record not found at ns2.terrabionic.com, try again terrabionic.com NS ns1.terrabionic.com ninja.terrabionic.com johann.ninja.terrabionic.lan (2002092801 10800 3600 604800 86400) !!! terrabionic.com SOA primary ninja.terrabionic.com is not advertised via NS ------------>8 The only reason why most people seem to be able to send email to you is the fact that the ns1/ns2 pair is registered in the gtld servers and not because your DNS is setup correctly at all. Also: $ host ninja.terrabionic.com ninja.terrabionic.com A 217.13.29.51 !!! ninja.terrabionic.com A record has zero ttl That's a very bad thing as most resolvers will just throw it out at instant. > So I can stop signing up for a mntner object now? ::} > > The tunnel broker I've chosen requires me to register with > the 6bone whois > database. And as far as I understand, a persons object is not enough. > > Guess I'll have to wait until after newyear to get my hookup. You don't need a maintainer object to have a working person object. But the fact is that if you don't have a maintainer object anybody can change your person object (delete,modify). Thus your data isn't safe. Though I've only seen it a couple of times that a 6bone object was 'stolen' by someone else. Btw I know of one tunnelbroker which requires an email field in the person object. That same tunnelbroker does also plan to start 'capturing' all person objects which sign up/have signed up and maintain them under their own maintainer object thus protecting the deletion of those users. Users can then change their information through the website and also allowing for a maintainer change, allowing the user to control it themselves again. Greets, Jeroen From hank@att.net.il Sun Dec 22 06:17:34 2002 From: hank@att.net.il (Hank Nussbacher) Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 08:17:34 +0200 Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive? In-Reply-To: <003201c2a83f$17afabf0$210d640a@unfix.org> References: <20021220163442.A964@aegis.terrabionic.lan> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021222080900.00fdbae8@max.att.net.il> At 04:47 PM 20-12-02 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote: >Johann Sharizan [mailto:johann@ninja.terrabionic.com] wrote: > > > What's so specific about the *WEB* interface? ::} > > > > The specifics are described in the hookup info page. > > > > Listen to that other guy, he has the same problem. > > > > If that's not sufficient, ask him to be more specific. > >As you are apparently not able to specify >which handle's you tried etc you are out of luck. > >Also the web interface nicely states: >8<-------------- >Questions or comments: registry@viagenie.qc.ca >-------------->8 Which is what I did on Dec 5 and I never received an answer: >Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:38:30 +0200 >To: Simon Leinen , Dani Arbel >, registry@viagenie.qc.ca <-------!!!! >From: Hank Nussbacher >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IPv6 and IUCC >Cc: , yaron Zabary > >At 12:21 PM 04-12-02 +0100, Simon Leinen wrote: > >>* Create a "maintainer" object for the 6BONE registry >> (this can be done via e-mail or through a Web interface, see >> http://www.6bone.net/) >>* Register an "ipv6-site" object in " " " >>* Tell us the name of your maintainer, so that we can create an >> "inet6num" object in the registry and delegate it to you. > >I went to the site to create a person object for new users as per stated at: >http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/newusers.shtml >and: >http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/cgi-bin/registry/creform.pl >and I get: > From whois: > From whois: % ERROR: ***You are not authorized to do network updates*** > From whois: > From whois: % ERROR: ***You are not authorized to do network updates*** > >What am I missing? > >-Hank I still can't create a person object via the web interface. :-( -Hank >CC'd them both so they know what you are screaming about. >Apparently nothing as you don't have a handle or other information >to describe it your problem. > >"Look *IT* doesn't work", very helpful... > >Greets, > Jeroen From jeroen@unfix.org Sun Dec 22 13:00:13 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 14:00:13 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021222080900.00fdbae8@max.att.net.il> Message-ID: <002101c2a9ba$11aee140$210d640a@unfix.org> Hank Nussbacher [mailto:hank@att.net.il] wrote: > At 04:47 PM 20-12-02 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote: > >Johann Sharizan [mailto:johann@ninja.terrabionic.com] wrote: > > > > > What's so specific about the *WEB* interface? ::} > > > > > > The specifics are described in the hookup info page. > > > > > > Listen to that other guy, he has the same problem. > > > > > > If that's not sufficient, ask him to be more specific. > > > >As you are apparently not able to specify > >which handle's you tried etc you are out of luck. > > > >Also the web interface nicely states: > >8<-------------- > >Questions or comments: registry@viagenie.qc.ca > >-------------->8 > > Which is what I did on Dec 5 and I never received an answer: > > >Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:38:30 +0200 > >To: Simon Leinen , Dani Arbel > >, registry@viagenie.qc.ca > <-------!!!! > >From: Hank Nussbacher > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IPv6 and IUCC > >Cc: , yaron Zabary > > > >At 12:21 PM 04-12-02 +0100, Simon Leinen wrote: > > > >>* Create a "maintainer" object for the 6BONE registry > >> (this can be done via e-mail or through a Web interface, see > >> http://www.6bone.net/) > >>* Register an "ipv6-site" object in " " " > >>* Tell us the name of your maintainer, so that we can create an > >> "inet6num" object in the registry and delegate it to you. > > > >I went to the site to create a person object for new users > as per stated at: > >http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/newusers.shtml > >and: > >http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/cgi-bin/registry/creform.pl > >and I get: > > From whois: > > From whois: % ERROR: ***You are not authorized to do > network updates*** > > From whois: > > From whois: % ERROR: ***You are not authorized to do > network updates*** > > > >What am I missing? > > > >-Hank If I would read the messages coming into registry@ I would first think: "What is it about, which handle, which name..." and then concluding: "be more specific". Odd that that seems to be a trend for me. But seeing the error message you apparently tried to update a pre-existing and maintained handle which explains the "You are not authorized to do network updates". If you really want to update that handle you should add the relevant maintainer handle and password. But we can't be sure of this guess because we don't know which handle you tried to use. And see if that really is the problem... > I still can't create a person object via the web interface. :-( Most people seem to like the mailer interface better ;) Greets, Jeroen From keshavaak@huawei.com Sun Dec 22 13:24:27 2002 From: keshavaak@huawei.com (Keshava Ayanur) Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 21:24:27 +0800 Subject: [6bone] about IPV6 FIB .. Message-ID: <000001c2a9bd$74082880$68226e0a@HUAWEI.COM> Hi, Can I get more information IPV6 FIB? Other than 3 fibs (link,site,global) do we need to have anything for multicast . More information about IPV6 Fib design document/information Will be help full. Thanks, Keshava From hank@att.net.il Sun Dec 22 18:40:52 2002 From: hank@att.net.il (Hank Nussbacher) Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 20:40:52 +0200 (IST) Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive? In-Reply-To: <002101c2a9ba$11aee140$210d640a@unfix.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote: > Hank Nussbacher [mailto:hank@att.net.il] wrote: > > > At 04:47 PM 20-12-02 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > >Johann Sharizan [mailto:johann@ninja.terrabionic.com] wrote: > > > > > > > What's so specific about the *WEB* interface? ::} > > > > > > > > The specifics are described in the hookup info page. > > > > > > > > Listen to that other guy, he has the same problem. > > > > > > > > If that's not sufficient, ask him to be more specific. > > > > > >As you are apparently not able to specify > > >which handle's you triedetc you are out of luck. > > > > > >Also the web interface nicely states: > > >8<-------------- > > >Questions or comments: registry@viagenie.qc.ca > > >-------------->8 > > > > Which is what I did on Dec 5 and I never received an answer: > > > > >Date: Thu, 05Dec 2002 08:38:30 +0200 > > >To: Simon Leinen , Dani Arbel > > >, registry@viagenie.qc.ca > > <-------!!!! > > >From: Hank Nussbacher > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IPv6 and IUCC > > >Cc:, yaron Zabary > > > > > >At 12:21 PM 04-12-02 +0100, Simon Leinen wrote: > > > > > >>* Create a "maintainer" object for the 6BONE registry > > >> (this can be done via e-mail or through a Web interface, see > > >> http://www.6bone.net/) > > >>* Register an "ipv6-site" object in " " " > > >>* Tell us the name of your maintainer, so that we can create an > > >> "inet6num" object in the registry and delegate it to you. > > > > > >I went to the site to create a person object for new users > > as per stated at: > > >http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/en/ipv6/registry/newusers.shtml > > >and: > > >http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/cgi-bin/registry/creform.pl > > >and I get: > > > From whois: > > > From whois: % ERROR: ***You are not authorized to do > > network updates*** > > > From whois: > > > From whois: % ERROR: ***You are not authorized to do > > network updates*** > > > > > >What am I missing? > > > > > >-Hank > > If I would read the messages coming into registry@ I would first think: > "What is it about, which handle, which name..." and then concluding: > "be more specific". Odd that that seems to be a trend for me. You never answered why my email went unanswered for 18 days. You could have easily answered the first time and stated the reply you stated above which would have elicited my reply below. > > But seeing the error message you apparently tried to update a > pre-existing > and maintained handle which explains the "You are not authorized to do > network updates". > If you really want to update that handle you should add the relevant > maintainer > handle and password. >From the New to 6bone - bootstrap process: "Create a PERSON object. Since you haven't had a MNTNER object yet, don't put anything in the mnt-by field." I go to: http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/cgi-bin/registry/creform.pl and select "person". I fill in name, address, phone, nic-hdl (AUTO-1 for new user), leave mnt-by blank, and fill in changed field and source. I don't understand how AUTO-1 is being viewed as a preexisting handle. I assume this registry follows RPSL rules and AUTO-1 is a valid nic-hdl for creating a new nic-hdl. I'll give the web interface one more chance after your response before giving up and trying the email interface. -Hank > > But we can't be sure of this guess because we don't know which handle > you tried to use. And see if that really is the problem... > > > I still can't create a person object via the web interface. :-( > > Most people seem to like the mailer interface better ;) > > Greets, > Jeroen > Hank Nussbacher From jeroen@unfix.org Mon Dec 23 00:43:54 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 01:43:54 +0100 Subject: [6bone] 6bone registry -- dead or alive? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004101c2aa1c$5ee6b7a0$210d640a@unfix.org> Hank Nussbacher [mailto:hank@att.net.il] wrote: > On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > > Hank Nussbacher [mailto:hank@att.net.il] wrote: > > > > > At 04:47 PM 20-12-02 +0100, Jeroen Massar wrote: > > > >Johann Sharizan [mailto:johann@ninja.terrabionic.com] wrote: > > > > > > If I would read the messages coming into registry@ I would > first think: > > "What is it about, which handle, which name..." and then concluding: > > "be more specific". Odd that that seems to be a trend for me. > > You never answered why my email went unanswered for 18 days. > You could > have easily answered the first time and stated the reply you > stated above which would have elicited my reply below. Ehmmm read again and maybe you will discover that I don't read those mails addressed to that mailbox ;) Note the "If I would read". I just wanted to note you of the fact that without sufficient information I wouldn't be able to sort it out and probably the people really reading those mails couldn't either. That doesn't explain the fact that you didn't get a reply though. > > But seeing the error message you apparently tried to update a > > pre-existing > > and maintained handle which explains the "You are not > authorized to do > > network updates". > > If you really want to update that handle you should add the relevant > > maintainer > > handle and password. > > From the New to 6bone - bootstrap process: "Create a PERSON > object. Since > you haven't had a MNTNER object yet, don't put anything in the mnt-by > field." > > I go to: > http://www.viagenie.qc.ca/cgi-> bin/registry/creform.pl and > select > "person". I fill in > name, address, phone, nic-hdl (AUTO-1 for new user), > leave mnt-by blank, and fill in changed field and source. I don't > understand how AUTO-1 is being viewed as a preexisting > handle. I assume > this registry follows RPSL rules and AUTO-1 is a valid nic-hdl for > creating a new nic-hdl. > > I'll give the web interface one more chance after your response before > giving up and trying the email interface. -Hank Indeed AUTO-1 should create a working person object and AUTO-1 can be used for specifying ones own initial set. As said, I would use the mailer interface, which the webfrontend uses too. See http://www.6bone.net/RIPE-registry.html, if that one doesn't work then the 6bone db itself is down along with it too. Greets, Jeroen From aridaman kaushik" Hi all, I have a doubt regarding FIB implementation. We are using one alogorithm which is consuming too much memory for memtainace of routing tabel. Is there any efficient algorithm fast(look up) and takes less memory for storing Ipv6 routes. regards ari. From trent@irc-desk.net Tue Dec 24 05:25:12 2002 From: trent@irc-desk.net (Trent Lloyd) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 13:25:12 +0800 Subject: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021224131839.01b43400@mail.iprimus.com.au> Greetings! This is another reminder that the IPv6 Mini-Conference scheduled at Linux.Conf.Au 2003 - Australia's Technical Linux Conference (http://www.linux.conf.au) The conference will be held on the 20th of January at the University of Western Australia in Perth (Australia). The talks will cover IPv6 basics and tutorials on writing IPv6 programs. Experienced IPv6 gurus will also be talking about deployment and home usage - check the website for more details and a schedule of events. More information can be found on our website at http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/ (yes, its v6 connected). Make sure to register at http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/register.php. Are you interested in presenting a paper? If so visit http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/cfp.php and submit your paper (be warned, odds are you will be accepted if you do :P). Attending the IPv6 Mini-Conference (Known as 1ca::6) is free with every registration to attend Linux.Conf.Au - you can register for it and find more details at www.linux.conf.au - It's shaping up and the conference is set to be a big success! Trent Lloyd [Lathat] Jan 22-25 2003 Linux.Conf.AU http://linux.conf.au/ The Australian Linux Technical Conference! From jim@jipo.com Tue Dec 24 11:16:24 2002 From: jim@jipo.com (Jean-Marc V. Liotier) Date: 24 Dec 2002 12:16:24 +0100 Subject: [6bone] LAN IPv6 global connectivity HOWTO Message-ID: <1040728584.599.9.camel@Lukeme> --=-3qtCgp591ySdzrkCKChK Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wrote a small howto for Linux users new to IPv6 and wishing to connect a LAN to the IPv6 world. It uses Freenet6 and it is specifically aimed at Debian users . I hope some will find it useful. http://www.jipo.org/jim/Jims_LAN_IPv6_global_connectivity_howto.html --=-3qtCgp591ySdzrkCKChK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+CEIHWuDM2vJS5OYRAjH2AKCmT0FNRhoL3DOhkrw2jfPO998nQQCghVEx BCoi+OHTQdCcAzYV4FOGfno= =BBRE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-3qtCgp591ySdzrkCKChK-- From jim@jipo.com Tue Dec 24 11:19:17 2002 From: jim@jipo.com (Jean-Marc V. Liotier) Date: 24 Dec 2002 12:19:17 +0100 Subject: [6bone] LAN IPv6 global connectivity HOWTO Message-ID: <1040728757.599.15.camel@Lukeme> --=-Zn2DMyH06eDCVHMd1hhF Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wrote a small howto for Linux users new to IPv6 and wishing to connect a LAN to the IPv6 world. It uses Freenet6 and it is specifically aimed at Debian users . I hope some will find it useful. http://www.jipo.org/jim/Jims_LAN_IPv6_global_connectivity_howto.html --=-Zn2DMyH06eDCVHMd1hhF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+CEK0WuDM2vJS5OYRAn8lAJwODUF6O3mVXCGzGL7e08AmVNTTlgCbB6Uv 7XSDw/hqGKXgbtqJkEjaQTQ= =xxKE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Zn2DMyH06eDCVHMd1hhF-- From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Thu Dec 26 05:08:42 2002 From: old_mc_donald@hotmail.com (Gav) Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:08:42 +0800 Subject: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021224131839.01b43400@mail.iprimus.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Trent, I would have loved to go to this event but, having only recently moved from the UK to Perth WA (September) and not having been able to get any work yet, I am unable to afford the costs involved (even the Student prices). I would only have gone on the 20th and not the other days involved. I wonder if maybe there would be a summary of events and lectures posted to your web site some time after the event.? Thanks. Gavin... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trent Lloyd" To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 1:25 PM Subject: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update | Greetings! | | This is another reminder that the IPv6 Mini-Conference scheduled at | Linux.Conf.Au 2003 - Australia's Technical Linux Conference | (http://www.linux.conf.au) | | The conference will be held on the 20th of January at the University of | Western Australia in Perth (Australia). The talks will cover IPv6 basics | and tutorials on writing IPv6 programs. Experienced IPv6 gurus will | also be talking about deployment and home usage - check the website for | more details and a schedule of events. | | More information can be found on our website at http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/ | (yes, its v6 connected). Make sure to register at | http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/register.php. | | Are you interested in presenting a paper? If so visit | http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/cfp.php and submit your paper (be warned, odds | are you will be accepted if you do :P). | | Attending the IPv6 Mini-Conference (Known as 1ca::6) is free with every | registration to attend Linux.Conf.Au - you can register for it and find | more details at www.linux.conf.au - It's shaping up and the conference | is set to be a big success! | | | Trent Lloyd [Lathat] | | Jan 22-25 2003 Linux.Conf.AU http://linux.conf.au/ | The Australian Linux Technical Conference! | | _______________________________________________ | 6bone mailing list | 6bone@mailman.isi.edu | http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone | From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sat Dec 28 13:00:03 2002 From: old_mc_donald@hotmail.com (Gav) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 21:00:03 +0800 Subject: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021224131839.01b43400@mail.iprimus.com.au> <20021226144350.GS13306@yeenoghu.progsoc.uts.edu.au> Message-ID: | $99 for a 3 day conference? Oh well, you must really be doing it tough. Not exactly, but I must prioritise having not worked for 4 months. | | For the main conference (linux.conf.au) we are anticipating having the | speakers presentations and Speex encoded audio available. We aren't sure | if that will be streamed out live at the moment. | | I'll flag it as something for the preceeding days but don't hold your | breath. | | Regards, | Anand Thanks for that, see my next message also :o) From old_mc_donald@hotmail.com Sat Dec 28 13:09:14 2002 From: old_mc_donald@hotmail.com (Gav) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 21:09:14 +0800 Subject: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021224131839.01b43400@mail.iprimus.com.au> <5.1.0.14.0.20021226212257.03519e48@mail.bur.st> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trent Lloyd" Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update | | Hrm, i am unsure of the status of getting a miniconf-only ticket. it doesnt | really.. wel isnt supposed to..happen | maybe i can squeeze you in. | you could always do a talk then i could let you in for free :P | Chicken and Egg here maybe, if I could do a talk then I wouldn't need to go! (If I was qualified for a talk of course I would have been glad too) I thought that the taster session might do me some good. | | >I would only have gone on the 20th and not the other days involved. | > | >I wonder if maybe there would be a summary of events and lectures posted to | >your web site some time after the event.? | | umm what lectures? for the main conference? they are available at | http://www.linux.conf.au Ok thanks for that. I have just now managed to get some relatively permanent work for now so looks like I wont be able to make the Monday session either now.! ( I mean I can't really take a day off now can I) Thanks for your help and offer. | | Gavin... | >Thanks. | > | >Gavin... | > | >----- Original Message ----- | >From: "Trent Lloyd" | >To: <6bone@mailman.isi.edu> | >Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 1:25 PM | >Subject: [6bone] IPv6 Mini-Conference Update | > | > | >| Greetings! | >| | >| This is another reminder that the IPv6 Mini-Conference scheduled at | >| Linux.Conf.Au 2003 - Australia's Technical Linux Conference | >| (http://www.linux.conf.au) | >| | >| The conference will be held on the 20th of January at the University of | >| Western Australia in Perth (Australia). The talks will cover IPv6 basics | >| and tutorials on writing IPv6 programs. Experienced IPv6 gurus will | >| also be talking about deployment and home usage - check the website for | >| more details and a schedule of events. | >| | >| More information can be found on our website at | >http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/ | >| (yes, its v6 connected). Make sure to register at | >| http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/register.php. | >| | >| Are you interested in presenting a paper? If so visit | >| http://ipv6.ztsoftware.net/cfp.php and submit your paper (be warned, odds | >| are you will be accepted if you do :P). | >| | >| Attending the IPv6 Mini-Conference (Known as 1ca::6) is free with every | >| registration to attend Linux.Conf.Au - you can register for it and find | >| more details at www.linux.conf.au - It's shaping up and the conference | >| is set to be a big success! | >| | >| | >| Trent Lloyd [Lathat] | >| | >| Jan 22-25 2003 Linux.Conf.AU | >http://linux.conf.au/ | >| The Australian Linux Technical Conference! | >| | >| _______________________________________________ | >| 6bone mailing list | >| 6bone@mailman.isi.edu | >| http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/6bone | >| | From wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au Tue Dec 31 05:16:00 2002 From: wildfire@progsoc.uts.edu.au (Anand Kumria) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:16:00 +1100 Subject: [6bone] Address management transfer proposal Message-ID: <20021231051559.GV13306@yeenoghu.progsoc.uts.edu.au> Hi all, Apparently comments about the proposed transfer are due in today, I've read most of the archive (most of the discussion took place in August) and here is my (completely biased) summary: Transfer to RIRs: Pros: - no single point of allocation - delegation of e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa Cons: - turns 3ffe::/16 into a service which requires payment Keeping existing system: Pros: - no changes Cons: - may induce volunteer burnout - no e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa delegation - doesn't excourage migration to production IPv6 addresses Some points I noted, my comments are under them: + RIRs have no incentive to pull-in IPv4 and hand-out IPv6; I think this will guarentee even slower IPv6 rollout It'd be nice if RIRs started to penalise their large transit/backbone operator for requesting IPv4 space but not have/using IPv6 space. It'd also be nice if pigs had wings too. + having the delegation, as far as I can tell, depend on migrating address management to the RIRs will only slow down IPv6 adoption. I help out on various irc channels people setup their tunnels; the hardest thing for most of them is to get reverse DNS gonig. When they discover that they have to do it twice (for ip6.int and ip6.arpa) most of them don't bother -- even if the work isn't much. Having the RIRs not delegate e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa means that support will be in place in a lot of OS for ip6.int for many years to come. + ARIN (at least) have waived fees for IPv6 space until today it may be worthwhile seeing which way they (all RIRs) jump on pricing (too high and it'll discourage ISPs from taking that service). + 6bone may not fall under the IETF IPv6 AD responsiblity; hence the desire to more it "somewhere approriate". + IPv6 is readily available, many people said "but I have native IPv6 already". Unfortunately even within APNIC's region getting IPv6 service is hard; my ISP has as it's upstream AS701 and AS1221. Only AS1221 has IPv6 production addresses (even that for only a year). Despite monthly emails and phone calls, the sales staff (both my ISP and AS1221's) don't know what IPv6 is. I'm not even sure if AS701 has IPv6 production addresses. Even worse is that the other major backbone with Australia (AS7474) hasn't even got any (6bone or production) IPv6 addresses. I feel that transferring the address allocation to RIRs (merely for the DNS delegation) will lead to the hastened end of the 6bone. We all realise the 6bone will, and must, go but I think it is too early at the moment. I think the issue may be worth revisiting next year however. Regards and enjoy your New Year. Anand -- `` We are shaped by our thoughts, we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves. '' -- Buddha, The Dhammapada From ka_wai_y@hotmail.com Tue Dec 31 14:02:06 2002 From: ka_wai_y@hotmail.com (Ka Wai Yong) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:02:06 +0000 Subject: [6bone] Zebra Cant' support IPv6 Message-ID: Why is my ipv6 lines cannot appear in zebra.config?? Its state error of ipv6 lines like "ipv6 nd suppress-ra" when i start zebra. I test with my RedHat 7.3 ipv6 function and it says ok like "ping6, route -A inet6" Is it problems of my Zebra Routing Software??I didn't disable IPv6 when configuring the Zebra. Please help....happy new year _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_advancedjmf_3mf From nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net Tue Dec 31 14:48:52 2002 From: nicolas.deffayet@ndsoftware.net (Nicolas DEFFAYET) Date: 31 Dec 2002 15:48:52 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Zebra Cant' support IPv6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1041346132.25612.164.camel@wks1.fr.corp.ndsoftware.com> On Tue, 2002-12-31 at 15:02, Ka Wai Yong wrote: > > Why is my ipv6 lines cannot appear in zebra.config?? > Its state error of ipv6 lines like "ipv6 nd suppress-ra" when i start zebra. > > I test with my RedHat 7.3 ipv6 function and it says ok like "ping6, route > -A inet6" > > Is it problems of my Zebra Routing Software??I didn't disable IPv6 when > configuring the Zebra. Do you use RPM for install Zebra or do you compile it ? Zebra RPM in Redhat 7.3 have a IPv6 support: http://www.rpmfind.net//linux/RPM/redhat/7.3/i386/zebra-0.92a-3.i386.html You can install this RPM or compile Zebra. -- Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware NOC Website: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/ FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/ From jeroen@unfix.org Tue Dec 31 15:06:08 2002 From: jeroen@unfix.org (Jeroen Massar) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:06:08 +0100 Subject: [6bone] Address management transfer proposal In-Reply-To: <20021231051559.GV13306@yeenoghu.progsoc.uts.edu.au> Message-ID: <001201c2b0de$26bca240$210d640a@unfix.org> Anand Kumria wrote: > Hi all, > > Apparently comments about the proposed transfer are due in today, I've > read most of the archive (most of the discussion took place > in August) and > here is my (completely biased) summary: > > Transfer to RIRs: > > Pros: > - no single point of allocation > - delegation of e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa > > Cons: > - turns 3ffe::/16 into a service which requires payment Who/what says/defines that suddenly one has to 'pay' for 6bone space? > Keeping existing system: > > Pros: > - no changes > > Cons: > - may induce volunteer burnout > - no e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa delegation > - doesn't excourage migration to production IPv6 addresses This would eNcourage migration to production IPv6 as the 6bone would be 'harmed' by the nonexistent ip6.arpa delegation. Also many people are moving on to RIR space, at least I think that is what you mean that with 'production' IPv6. > Some points I noted, my comments are under them: > > + RIRs have no incentive to pull-in IPv4 and hand-out IPv6; I > think this will guarentee even slower IPv6 rollout I think you are quite wrong here; See http://www.ripe.net/ipv6/v6allocs.html or http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/ IPv6 TLA's per country Total number of countries: 49 The following prefixlengths are delegated by the RIR's: 58x /24 56x /28 240x /32 55x /35 ripe: 140 6bone: 134 apnic: 93 arin: 42 Hmm 134 6bone TLA's and only 140+93+42 = 275 RIR TLA's... not enough? :) Only the ARIN region is quite behind, but the others are growing rapidly. > > It'd be nice if RIRs started to penalise their large transit/backbone > operator for requesting IPv4 space but not have/using IPv6 space. It'd > also be nice if pigs had wings too. ISP's/Transit providers are BUSINESSES. They have to earn money. And no you don't want to have pigs with wings either. > + having the delegation, as far as I can tell, depend on migrating > address management to the RIRs will only slow down IPv6 adoption. > > I help out on various irc channels people setup their tunnels; the > hardest thing for most of them is to get reverse DNS gonig. When they > discover that they have to do it twice (for ip6.int and ip6.arpa) most > of them don't bother -- even if the work isn't much. Give those people clue first and probably the only reason why they want reverse is to 'look cool on irc'. That's not a reason to do IPv6. One can IRC quite well with IPv4 too, but then those people will complain as they don't have I.am.the.ipv6.rular.net or similar crap. > Having the RIRs not delegate e.f.f.3.ip6.arpa means that > support will be > in place in a lot of OS for ip6.int for many years to come. 6bone is a testbed it ain't that critical. > + ARIN (at least) have waived fees for IPv6 space until today > > it may be worthwhile seeing which way they (all RIRs) jump on > pricing (too high and it'll discourage ISPs from taking that service). 6bone isn't just "free IP space for all" Every RIR can have their own policies for delegating address space. > + 6bone may not fall under the IETF IPv6 AD responsiblity; hence the > desire to more it "somewhere approriate". Could you translate that? > + IPv6 is readily available, many people said "but I have native IPv6 > already". > > Unfortunately even within APNIC's region getting IPv6 service is hard; > my ISP has as it's upstream AS701 and AS1221. Only AS1221 has IPv6 > production addresses (even that for only a year). Despite monthly > emails and phone calls, the sales staff (both my ISP and AS1221's) don't > know what IPv6 is. Get another uplink if you are not content with them. > I'm not even sure if AS701 has IPv6 production addresses. > Even worse is > that the other major backbone with Australia (AS7474) hasn't even got > any (6bone or production) IPv6 addresses. Convince them that they should; they will probably have one big and fairly good argument: Pay us. > I feel that transferring the address allocation to RIRs (merely for > the DNS delegation) will lead to the hastened end of the 6bone. We all > realise the 6bone will, and must, go but I think it is too > early at the moment. I read this as "because I don't have ip6.arpa my irc doesn't work". Well fortunatly for all the IRC and nice hostname users out there most ircd's capable of IPv6 have a special "if 6bone then use ip6.int". So your l337ish reverses will pop up quite nicely. The rest of your message has nothing to do with ip6.arpa unless you see 6bone space as 'free' IP space. 6bone is a testbed, not production, not commercial. Greets, Jeroen From aangel@myrealbox.com Tue Dec 31 22:50:39 2002 From: aangel@myrealbox.com (Aaron J. Angel) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:50:39 +0000 Subject: [6bone] Address management transfer proposal References: <20021231051559.GV13306@yeenoghu.progsoc.uts.edu.au> Message-ID: <3E121F3F.1080906@myrealbox.com> Mark Prior wrote: > There is no such thing as a free lunch ... Did you try the soup kitchen across from the casino? -- Encryption anticipates copying. Aaron J. Angel