From RLFink@lbl.gov Tue Oct 1 02:09:08 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:09:08 -0700 Subject: Stats from NIST site. In-Reply-To: <199609301721.NAA00336@sloth.ncsl.nist.gov> Message-ID: I've added Rob Glenn's ping page stats from NIST to the 6bone stat page pointers. I like the stats, especially the color coding for easy checking of what's losing what. Bob =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D At 10:21 AM -0700 9/30/96, 6bone@snad.ncsl.nist.gov wrote: >We had a major outage this weekend so I don't know if this made it... >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Autogenerated and color-coded ping statistics from NIST can be found at: > >http://snad.ncsl.nist.gov/~ipng/NIST-6bone-status.html > >The script downloads the RIPE registries and attempts to ping every >pingable site listed in each file. This include the v4 Tunnel address. > >Data is gathered using ping on a BSD/OS PC running the NRL Alpha-3 IPv6 >code. The pinging system is two hops from the tunnel end-point. This >implies that v6 RTTs are relative to the return trip times for NIST. >Thus, computed RTT is given as SITE RTT - NIST RTT. > >v4 paths are different than the v6 tunnel paths. v4 Tunnel RTTs are >listed but have little, if any, relation to v6 RTT. > >Each site is pinged 10 times using a packet size of 500 bytes. >Statistics are gathered every hour. > >NOTE: I tried 1000 bytes but that failed too often. > >Rob G. >rob.glenn@nist.gov > >PS - If anyone wants a copy of the script, let me know. FYI: To run it > you need PERL 5 or better installed. From RLFink@lbl.gov Wed Oct 2 00:17:37 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 16:17:37 -0700 Subject: 6bone map change - NASA-GSFC/US tunnel to NRL/US Message-ID: 6bone diagram 25: NASA-GSFC/US now has a tunnel to NRL/US. http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/6bone-drawing.html Bob =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =46rom: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:44:49 PDT To: rlfink@lbl.gov Subject: 6bone map addition Hi, NASA-GSFC is now online at RIPE. Their prefix is 5f06:d500/32 and their tunnel is with NRL. Other sites maintaining full routing probably want to a= dd them to their routing tables. I can ping them from cisco (below) so its clear that their tunnel with NRL works both ways (and my route for NASA-GSFC is in place in 6bone-router :-). Ran rja@cisco.com ------------------------------------------------- 6bone-router#ping ipv6 gsfc-frog-6 Type escape sequence to abort. Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F06:D500:C677:1300:2001:0800:207C:C310, timeout is 2 seconds: !!!!! Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max =3D 84/104/144 ms 6bone-router# ------------------------------------------------- -- From igor@kit.kz Mon Oct 7 10:26:55 1996 From: igor@kit.kz (Igor Sharfmesser) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 15:26:55 +0600 (GMT+0600) Subject: Connection to 6bone Message-ID: <199610070926.PAA19369@mail.kit.kz> Hello I'm writing from Kazakhstan. Our company is largest ISP at Kazakhstan. We are seeking for tunnet to IPv6 backbone. The our main goal is to get experience with IPv6. Thanks in advance, Igor Sharfmesser Kazinformtelecom From RLFink@lbl.gov Tue Oct 8 14:57:25 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 06:57:25 -0700 Subject: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR Message-ID: 6bone drawing version 26: add tunnel from new site DIGITAL-CA/US to G6/FR add tunnel from CISCO/US to G6/FR To make this easier for me I would like to suggest that announcements to me for tunnels include the RIPE registry entry and a ping example (like Ran did below) so I don't have to reproduce the effort. It would sure make my job easier. I would note that the 6bone is now truly looking like spaghetti. My guess is that this pot of noodles will be very difficult to run RIPv6 over...but we can address that when the time comes to actually try RIPv6. No noodles to the table before their time :-) Thanks, Bob =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =46rom: "Alain Durand" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:36:28 +0100 To: Bob Fink LBNL Subject: new tunnel with DIGITAL-CA Hi bob. There is a new tunnel between DIGITAL-CA and G6. My ripe entry is updated. >From what I have noticed, they also have tunnels with DIGITAL-NH & UNH. You might talk to Stephen Stuart for more infos. - Alain. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =46rom: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 12:45:48 PDT To: rlfink@lbl.gov Subject: [6bone] cisco--G6 tunnel up Cc: alain.durand@imag.fr Bob, There is now a cisco--G6 tunnel up and running. I will update my RIPE entry accordingly in a few minutes. An example ping is appended below. The packet loss rate is high enough that I consider this tunnel more "experimental" more operational at this time. Since the ESnet/JOIN path is more dependable at this time, I will continue to use the ESnet/JOIN path as = my primary 6bone path to/from European sites. Regards, Ran rja@cisco.com =0C ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 6bone-router>ping ipv6 5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0001::8158:1A01 Type escape sequence to abort. Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F06:B500:8158:1A00:0001::8158:1A01, timeout is 2 seconds: !.!!. Success rate is 60 percent (3/5), round-trip min/avg/max =3D 180/185/192 ms ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - end From deering@parc.xerox.com Tue Oct 8 16:17:44 1996 From: deering@parc.xerox.com (Steve Deering) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:17:44 PDT Subject: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR In-Reply-To: RLFink's message of Tue, 08 Oct 96 06:57:25 -0800. Message-ID: <96Oct8.081744pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com> > I would note that the 6bone is now truly looking like spaghetti. My guess > is that this pot of noodles will be very difficult to run RIPv6 over... Bob, Why do you think that? Isn't the whole purpose of routing protocols, like RIP, to find paths through arbitrarily-complex topologies? Steve From RLFink@lbl.gov Tue Oct 8 19:14:12 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 11:14:12 -0700 Subject: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR In-Reply-To: <96Oct8.081744pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com> References: RLFink's message of Tue, 08 Oct 96 06:57:25 -0800. Message-ID: Steve, >> I would note that the 6bone is now truly looking like spaghetti. My gues= s >> is that this pot of noodles will be very difficult to run RIPv6 over... >Why do you think that? Isn't the whole purpose of routing protocols, like >RIP, to find paths through arbitrarily-complex topologies? Can't honetly say it won't work, just that RIP may be fragile for such a complex topology with some less than reliable sets of links. We will sure learn a lot. However, my real point was to note that some planning may be in order to create a more sensible backbone for the 6bone when we get to the RIP stage. As an aside, what are the other routing protocols we are likely to see over the next year or so. Thanks, Bob From bound@zk3.dec.com Wed Oct 9 03:15:16 1996 From: bound@zk3.dec.com (bound@zk3.dec.com) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 22:15:16 -0400 Subject: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 08 Oct 96 08:17:44 PDT." <96Oct8.081744pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com> Message-ID: <9610090215.AA14143@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> Bob, Can you get the map updated to show the tunnels directly to Cisco, and UNH-Bay-Digital via UNH too on the 6bone drawing for our new addition Digital-CA, in addition to the G6/FR tunnel. We are setting up to distribute packets from S.E. Asia (Singapore, Hong Kong, Thailand, etc..). The connection is more than just to G6/FR. We are by passing other hubs on purpose in the spirit of laizze-faire and to make this look like the real Internet. We have chosen to provide routes to nodes via Cisco, UNH, and G6/FR hubs. p.s. On routing protocols. I think the next step after RIPv6 is OSPFv6. Then on to IDRPv6 for exterior routing. To that end I would like to figure out at San Jose IETF the status of IDRPv6 from folks working on it. If it still is not on target I will champion an effort with other interested vendors to fund with real $$$$ a public domain implementation vendors can use to get IDRPv6 up and running. I think GATED Consortia may be ahead of me and that is where the $$$ need to go. I just don't know right now. The $$$ would include some bright people to work on the spec too. I would like to see a prototype of IDRPv6 on the 6bone in 1997. I view it from an engineering perspective as a MUST SHIP CRITICAL priority for IPv6 on the 6bone. thanks /jim From Bernard.Tuy@urec.fr Wed Oct 9 09:21:51 1996 From: Bernard.Tuy@urec.fr (Bernard.Tuy@urec.fr) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 10:21:51 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR Message-ID: <199610090821.KAA05641@titan.urec.fr> | Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 22:15:16 -0400 | From: bound@zk3.dec.com | | p.s. On routing protocols. I think the next step after RIPv6 is OSPFv6. | Then on to IDRPv6 for exterior routing. To that end I would like to | figure out at San Jose IETF the status of IDRPv6 from folks working on it. ====BT: Thank you Jim to have pointed this out. I want strongly support this point of view and would appreciate others -i.e manufacturers- to consider this as URGENT ... We need an exterior routing protocol to go ahead with 6bone first and then native IPv6 topology. I'm not sure we can keep this alive with RIP. About IDRPv6 status, we've to face that the ID has been deleted one month ago or so. Any volunteer to issue a new version ? I guess we do need it. | If it still is not on target I will champion an effort with other | interested vendors to fund with real $$$$ a public domain implementation | vendors can use to get IDRPv6 up and running. ====BT: same approval as above ... | I think GATED Consortia | may be ahead of me and that is where the $$$ need to go. I just don't know | right now. ====BT: I discussed this with Merit people during last RIPE meeting in Amsterdam. I was told the IPv6 stuff is not yet ready, but some there are working on. | I would like to see a prototype of IDRPv6 on the 6bone in 1997. | I view it from an engineering perspective as a MUST SHIP CRITICAL | priority for IPv6 on the 6bone. ====BT: sure. You know Telebit (DK) has an IDRP implementation, and sells its boxes since one year or so yet ... Do we want a Telebit backbone for the 6bone ? Regard, +Bernard Tuy. From RLFink@lbl.gov Wed Oct 9 15:36:50 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 07:36:50 -0700 Subject: 6bone map change - new DIGITAL-CA/US tunnels Message-ID: 6bone drawing version 27: new tunnel from DIGITAL-CA/US to CISCO/US new tunnel from DIGITAL-CA/US to UNH/US new tunnel from DIGITAL-CA/US to DIGITAL-NH/US I assume the tunnels are running as Jim has indicated this, but I would still like to see ping data in these requests as a general rule, as well as the RIPE data for each end of the tunnel. Also, the following RIPE registry stuff needs to be added/fixed: G6/FR tunnel to digital is not full name and is mispelled DIGITAL-NH/US has no tunnel shown to DIGITAL-CA/US CISCO/US has no tunnel shown to DIGITAL-CA/US I will try to sweep the RIPE db at least once to see if all the tunnels are listed properly. Thanks, Bob =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D To: Bob Fink LBNL Cc: 6bone@isi.edu (6BONE Mailer) Subject: Re: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 22:15:16 -0400 =46rom: bound@zk3.dec.com Bob, Can you get the map updated to show the tunnels directly to Cisco, and UNH-Bay-Digital via UNH too on the 6bone drawing for our new addition Digital-CA, in addition to the G6/FR tunnel. We are setting up to distribute packets from S.E. Asia (Singapore, Hong Kong, Thailand, etc..). The connection is more than just to G6/FR. We are by passing other hubs on purpose in the spirit of laizze-faire and to make this look like the real Internet. We have chosen to provide routes to nodes via Cisco, UNH, and G6/FR hubs. p.s. On routing protocols. I think the next step after RIPv6 is OSPFv6. Then on to IDRPv6 for exterior routing. To that end I would like to figure out at San Jose IETF the status of IDRPv6 from folks working on it. If it still is not on target I will champion an effort with other interested vendors to fund with real $$$$ a public domain implementation vendors can use to get IDRPv6 up and running. I think GATED Consortia may be ahead of me and that is where the $$$ need to go. I just don't know right now. The $$$ would include some bright people to work on the spec too. I would like to see a prototype of IDRPv6 on the 6bone in 1997. I view it from an engineering perspective as a MUST SHIP CRITICAL priority for IPv6 on the 6bone. thanks /jim - end From rja@cisco.com Wed Oct 9 19:20:23 1996 From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 11:20:23 PDT Subject: IPv6 routing issues In-Reply-To: bound@zk3.dec.com "Re: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR" (Oct 8, 10:15pm) Message-ID: <199610091820.LAA26128@cornpuffs.cisco.com> As of the last time I talked with the IDRP document authors, they were indicating that they did not consider their draft fully cooked. Until they make sufficient progress refining their draft, it seems unwise to depend on that. Similarly, my (possibly outdated) understanding has been that the OSPFv3 spec was still evolving. For example, there were some unresolved discussions about whether the OSPFv3 spec could be changed to permit OSPFv3 to route both IPv4 and IPv6 (analagous to how Integrated ISIS works). The feature of "integrated routing" is one that our customers are clearly asking for. Many customer sites view integrated routing as critical to their ability to transition from IPv4-only to IPv4+IPv6 routing. RIP can function fine as an exterior routing protocol in many environments, so lack of IDRP or OSPF is not necessarily an operational issue. Depending on how well RIPng converges, network service providers might find it desirable to work on thoughtful provisioning but that is an operational issues for such providers to sort out among themselves if/when such providers exist. Similarly, I'm hearing major commercial customers express dismay that IPv6 does not explicitly include support for EIDs. Ran rja@cisco.com -- From deering@parc.xerox.com Wed Oct 9 20:09:36 1996 From: deering@parc.xerox.com (Steve Deering) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:09:36 PDT Subject: IPv6 routing issues In-Reply-To: rja's message of Wed, 09 Oct 96 11:20:23 -0800. <199610091820.LAA26128@cornpuffs.cisco.com> Message-ID: <96Oct9.120937pdt."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com> > Similarly, I'm hearing major commercial customers express dismay that IPv6 > does not explicitly include support for EIDs. Ran, Since no two people seem to agree on what an EID is, it is hard to know how to respond to such complaints. Is this the "marketing" EID, the one that solves all Internet addressing problems, kinda like the way "QoS" solves all Internet performance problems? Steve From bound@zk3.dec.com Wed Oct 9 21:00:16 1996 From: bound@zk3.dec.com (bound@zk3.dec.com) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 96 16:00:16 -0400 Subject: IPv6 routing issues In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 09 Oct 96 11:20:23 PDT." <199610091820.LAA26128@cornpuffs.cisco.com> Message-ID: <9610092000.AA03740@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> > As of the last time I talked with the IDRP document authors, they were >indicating that they did not consider their draft fully cooked. Until they >make sufficient progress refining their draft, it seems unwise to depend on >that. Hmmm. Mabye we need new authors in fact I am working off line now to find some authors. I was unaware anyone was actually working on IDRPv6? > Similarly, my (possibly outdated) understanding has been that the OSPFv3 spec >was still evolving. For example, there were some unresolved discussions about >whether the OSPFv3 spec could be changed to permit OSPFv3 to route both IPv4 >and IPv6 (analagous to how Integrated ISIS works). The feature of "integrated >routing" is one that our customers are clearly asking for. Many customer >sites view integrated routing as critical to their ability to transition from >IPv4-only to IPv4+IPv6 routing. Well we have a pretty good OSPFv6 spec out there now and I am hoping Rob Coltun does an implementation. So I am not concerned if it later has to be updated to v3. As far as I-IS-IS that is a nice to have but IPv4 and IPv6 routing is a bit different than tunneling IP in CLNP or the other way around. Besides Dimitry's routing-aspects draft covers this anyway so my gut feeling is I-IS-IS is not needed for IPv4/IPv6 and knowing it well I would say this is just a matter of explaining this to customers as education. As most likely the ones who want it are using I-IS-IS today and thats not a lot of customers really. Bottom line is you get integrated routing with IPv6 for IPv4 automatically by definition of how the architecture was designed for IPv6 and the relative specs. I am also hearing from Friends there is a draft on TAGS to use up part of the flow-label in IPv6 and I innately have a real problem with that and will be bringing that to the IPng WG list soon. > RIP can function fine as an exterior routing protocol in many environments, >so lack of IDRP or OSPF is not necessarily an operational issue. Depending >on how well RIPng converges, network service providers might find it desirable >to work on thoughtful provisioning but that is an operational issues for such >providers to sort out among themselves if/when such providers exist. True... But IDRPv6 will provide a lot more to the telcos and ISPs. > Similarly, I'm hearing major commercial customers express dismay that IPv6 >does not explicitly include support for EIDs. > I speak with a lot of customers and none have brought it up other than in terms of DNS or LDAP to locate people not nodes on a network. In a tutorial I do and have done for two customers I go over the history of how all this came about. Both customers state what I just stated on IPng and what Steve just responded, and that is but they cannot be defined and I need more than one of them. /jim From bound@zk3.dec.com Wed Oct 9 21:02:17 1996 From: bound@zk3.dec.com (bound@zk3.dec.com) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 96 16:02:17 -0400 Subject: 6bone map change - DIGITAL-CA/US & CISCO/US tunnels to G6/FR In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 09 Oct 96 10:21:51 +0200." <199610090821.KAA05641@titan.urec.fr> Message-ID: <9610092002.AA15044@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> | I think GATED Consortia | may be ahead of me and that is where the $$$ need to go. I just don't know | right now. >====BT: I discussed this with Merit people during last RIPE meeting in Amsterdam. > I was told the IPv6 stuff is not yet ready, but some there are working on. > Thats what I just got told where I work too. Sounds like we should get some more help for them. >| I would like to see a prototype of IDRPv6 on the 6bone in 1997. >| I view it from an engineering perspective as a MUST SHIP CRITICAL >| priority for IPv6 on the 6bone. > >====BT: sure. You know Telebit (DK) has an IDRP implementation, and sells its boxes > since one year or so yet ... Do we want a Telebit backbone for the 6bone ? > I did not know this. It would be ideal if Telebit could help get the draft done and work with GATED>?/?? Is that even a possibility? thanks /jim From rja@cisco.com Wed Oct 9 21:28:22 1996 From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:28:22 PDT Subject: IPv6 routing issues In-Reply-To: bound@zk3.dec.com "Re: IPv6 routing issues" (Oct 9, 4:00pm) Message-ID: <199610092028.NAA28115@cornpuffs.cisco.com> On Oct 9, 4:00pm, bound@zk3.dec.com wrote: % Well we have a pretty good OSPFv6 spec out there now and I am hoping Rob % Coltun does an implementation. So I am not concerned if it later has to % be updated to v3. I do not understand your comment. By the way, OSPF for IPv6 == OSPFv3. % As far as I-IS-IS that is a nice to have but IPv4 and IPv6 routing is a % bit different than tunneling IP in CLNP or the other way around. End of excerpt from bound@zk3.dec.com I did not mention I-ISIS in my note (I was discussing integrated routing for OSPFv3), though I do find your comments interesting in the context of the Digital entry on the IPng web site, thinking particularly where it says (quoted directly): "In addition, Digital intends to implement IPv6 in the Integrated IS-IS routing protocol to allow an integrated approach to routing of IPv4, IPv6, DECnet and OSI." Regards, Ran rja@cisco.com -- From roque@di.fc.ul.pt Wed Oct 9 21:38:39 1996 From: roque@di.fc.ul.pt (Pedro Roque) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 21:38:39 +0100 Subject: IPv6 routing issues In-Reply-To: <199610091820.LAA26128@cornpuffs.cisco.com> References: <199610091820.LAA26128@cornpuffs.cisco.com> Message-ID: <199610092038.VAA21271@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt> >>>>> "Ran" == Ran Atkinson writes: Ran> Similarly, I'm hearing major commercial customers express Ran> dismay that IPv6 does not explicitly include support for Ran> EIDs. Maybe we should move the EID argument to a "Strong ES models for IPv6" mailing list. Also, there is already a full blown EID based soluction for IPv6, whose base architecture document was recently published as an RFC: RFC 1992 I I. Castineyra, J. Chiappa, M. Steenstrup, "The Nimrod Routing Architecture", 08/30/1996. (Pages=27) (Format=.txt) All in all, we can say the market as nothing to fear... At least not lack of proposals, for sure. regards, ./Pedro. From bound@zk3.dec.com Wed Oct 9 23:09:50 1996 From: bound@zk3.dec.com (bound@zk3.dec.com) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 96 18:09:50 -0400 Subject: IPv6 routing issues In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 09 Oct 96 13:28:22 PDT." <199610092028.NAA28115@cornpuffs.cisco.com> Message-ID: <9610092209.AA03642@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> % Well we have a pretty good OSPFv6 spec out there now and I am hoping Rob % Coltun does an implementation. So I am not concerned if it later has to % be updated to v3. >I do not understand your comment. >By the way, OSPF for IPv6 == OSPFv3. Sorry. I thought OSPFv3 was more than the attached abstract? If its OSPFv3 is in fact the work going for the attached abstract yours is the first mail I have seen referncing it as OSPFv3. I reference it as OSPFv6. ????? --------------------------------------------------- "OSPF for IPv6", R. Coltun, D. Ferguson, J. Moy,, 06/10/1996, This document describes the modifications to OSPF to support version 6 of the Internet Protocol (IPv6). The fundamental mechanisms of OSPF (flooding, DR election, area support, SPF calculations, etc.) remain unchanged. However, some changes have been necessary, either due to changes in protocol semantics between IPv4 and IPv6, or simply to handle the increased address size of IPv6. Changes between OSPF for IPv4 and this document include the following. Addressing semantics have been removed from OSPF packets and the basic LSAs. New LSAs have been created to carry IPv6 addresses and prefixes. OSPF now runs on a per-link basis, instead of on a per-IP-subnet basis. Flooding scope for LSAs has been generalized. Authentication has been removed from the OSPF protocol itself, instead relying on IPv6's Authentication Header and Encapsulating Security Payload. Most packets in OSPF for IPv6 are almost as compact as those in OSPF for IPv4, even with the larger IPv6 addresses. Most field- and packet-size limitations present in OSPF for IPv4 have been relaxed. In addition, option handling has been made more flexible. ------------------------------------------------------ % As far as I-IS-IS that is a nice to have but IPv4 and IPv6 routing is a % bit different than tunneling IP in CLNP or the other way around. End of excerpt from bound@zk3.dec.com >I did not mention I-ISIS in my note (I was discussing integrated routing for >OSPFv3), though I do find your comments interesting in the context of the >Digital entry on the IPng web site, thinking particularly where it says >(quoted directly): > > "In addition, Digital intends to implement IPv6 in the > Integrated IS-IS routing protocol to allow an integrated approach > to routing of IPv4, IPv6, DECnet and OSI." This is from your previous mail. & Similarly, my (possibly outdated) understanding has been that the OSPFv3 spec &was still evolving. For example, there were some unresolved discussions about &whether the OSPFv3 spec could be changed to permit OSPFv3 to route both IPv4 &and IPv6 (analagous to how Integrated ISIS works). The feature of "integrated &routing" is one that our customers are clearly asking for. Many customer &sites view integrated routing as critical to their ability to transition from &IPv4-only to IPv4+IPv6 routing. I see the confusion... I was referencing your analogy above of how I-IS-IS works and its not worth doing on a router that only supports IPv4 or even a Host based Router. As far as the WWW Page thats a true statement to support existing customers to get to IPv6 from an environment where IPv4, DECnet, and CLNP are routed on the backbone. Note the WWW page said Digital would implement it not that we would go to standards bodies to propose the change. Though that may happen. My comment was for the majority of nodes on the Internet that are using only IPv4 developing a full blown I-IS-IS protocol for IPv4/IPv6 seems like overkill to me. Also I am mostly here as an individual (I cannot deny who pays for me to spend my time on this) and if Digital wants to build I-IS-IS extensions in the IETF I may disagree with my own fellow employees at Digital and at the IETF. I don't see the need. Now as always I am always open to listening and changing my mind. thanks /jim From rja@cisco.com Thu Oct 10 00:22:42 1996 From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:22:42 PDT Subject: IPv6 routing issues In-Reply-To: bound@zk3.dec.com "Re: IPv6 routing issues" (Oct 9, 6:09pm) Message-ID: <199610092322.QAA00793@cornpuffs.cisco.com> The OSPF draft that you cite specifies OSPFv3 not OSPFv2, as the draft itself makes clear. Ran rja@cisco.com -- From bound@zk3.dec.com Thu Oct 10 01:27:15 1996 From: bound@zk3.dec.com (bound@zk3.dec.com) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 96 20:27:15 -0400 Subject: IPv6 routing issues In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 09 Oct 96 16:22:42 PDT." <199610092322.QAA00793@cornpuffs.cisco.com> Message-ID: <9610100027.AA18738@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> OK Ran on OSPFv3... my misunderstanding.... thanks /jim From brian@dxcoms.cern.ch Thu Oct 10 09:08:34 1996 From: brian@dxcoms.cern.ch (Brian Carpenter CERN-CN) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:08:34 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: IPv6 routing issues In-Reply-To: <199610092038.VAA21271@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt> from "Pedro Roque" at Oct 9, 96 09:38:39 pm Message-ID: <9610100808.AA11071@dxcoms.cern.ch> Pedro, I don't see anything in RFC 1992 that covers the semantics of Nimrod EIDs when a transaction is rehomed (as I've just been discussing with Ohta over on another list). Otherwise, I agree that it's a perfectly good abstract definition. We don't have a concrete definition though. And we don't have consensus whether IDs should be squeezed into the regular address, or separated. (Nimrod makes an abstract separation between locator and identifier, but we need bit layouts.) Brian >--------- Text sent by Pedro Roque follows: > > >>>>> "Ran" == Ran Atkinson writes: > > Ran> Similarly, I'm hearing major commercial customers express > Ran> dismay that IPv6 does not explicitly include support for > Ran> EIDs. > > Maybe we should move the EID argument to a "Strong ES models for IPv6" mailing > list. Also, there is already a full blown EID based soluction for IPv6, whose > base architecture document was recently published as an RFC: > > RFC 1992 I I. Castineyra, J. Chiappa, M. Steenstrup, "The Nimrod Routing > Architecture", 08/30/1996. (Pages=27) (Format=.txt) > > All in all, we can say the market as nothing to fear... At least not lack > of proposals, for sure. > > regards, > ./Pedro. > From RLFink@lbl.gov Tue Oct 15 17:18:01 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:18:01 -0700 Subject: a 6bone BOF at the San Jose IETF Message-ID: I have been asked by several folks to arrange for a 6bone BOF at the San Jose IETF meeting in December. In order to have a meeting at a regular time (as opposed to being jammed into a lunch time which people have complained about) it is necessary to be an "official BOF" which requires approval of an area director. Also, a BOF leads to formation of a Working Group (from RFC 1603 on BOFs): - All BOFs must have the approval of the appropriate Area Director. The Secretariat will NOT schedule or allocate time slots without the explicit approval of the Area Director. - The purpose of a BOF is to conduct a single, brief discussion or to ascertain interest and establish goals for a working group. All BOF organizers are required to submit a brief written report of what transpired during the BOF session together with a roster of attendees to the IESG Secretary for inclusion in the Proceedings. So the relevant questions seem to be: 1. What do we have to discuss in San Jose about regular 6bone business as we know it? 2. Do we want to hold an "official BOF" to discuss the formation of a Working Group (the details of what it might accomplish could be a topic for the BOF along with 1. above)? I'm willing to chair an initial BOF, if we chose to have one, and deal with administrativia, if the group so wishes. The Operational Requirements area seems to be the mostly likley one for any 6bone activity. I have asked its co-Directors, Mike O'Dell and Scott Bradner, if they would support having a BOF, if our "rough consensus" discussions on the list supported it; they said yes. As to what a 6bone Working Group might do, I looked at the new mboned Working Group charter, as the 6bone is patterned after the mbone. Clearly there is a wide degree of acceptable goals for a Working Group. We could have goals as simple as documenting the existing 6bone structure in an informational RFC (or at least I suspect we could). Anyway, please comment on all the above so we can make a decision quickly on securing the BOF time slot in San Jose. Thanks, Bob =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D from RFC 1603 "IETF Working Group Guidelines and Procedures" 2.4. Birds of a feather (BOF) Often it is not clear whether an issue merits the formation of a working group. To facilitate exploration of the issues the IETF offers the possibility of a Birds of a Feather (BOF) session, as well as the early formation of an email list for preliminary discussion. Alternatively, a BOF may serve as a forum for a single presentation or discussion, without any intent to form a working group. A BOF is a session at an IETF meeting which permits "market research" and technical "brainstorming". Any individual may request permission to hold a BOF on a subject. The request must be filed with the relevant Area Director. The person who requests the BOF is usually appointed as Chair of the BOF. The Chair of the BOF is also responsible for providing a report on the outcome of the BOF. Huizer & Crocker [Page 9] RFC 1603 IETF Working Group Guidelines March 1994 The AD may require the conduct of email discussion, prior to authorizing a BOF. This permits initial exchanges and sharing of framework, vocabulary and approaches, in order to make the time spent in the BOF more productive. The AD may require that a BOF be held, prior to establishing a working group, and the AD may require that there be a draft of the WG charter prior to holding a BOF. Usually the outcome of a BOF will be one of the following: - There was enough interest and focus in the subject to warrant the formation of a WG; - The discussion came to a fruitful conclusion, with results to be written down and published, however there is no need to establish a WG; or - There was not enough interest in the subject to warrant the formation of a WG. There is an increasing demand for BOF sessions at IETF meetings. Therefore the following rules apply for BOFs: - All BOFs must have the approval of the appropriate Area Director. The Secretariat will NOT schedule or allocate time slots without the explicit approval of the Area Director. - The purpose of a BOF is to conduct a single, brief discussion or to ascertain interest and establish goals for a working group. All BOF organizers are required to submit a brief written report of what transpired during the BOF session together with a roster of attendees to the IESG Secretary for inclusion in the Proceedings. - A BOF may be held only once (ONE slot at one IETF Plenary meeting). - Under unusual circumstances an Area Director may, at their discretion, allow a BOF to meet for a second time. Typically (though not a requirement) this is to develop a charter to be submitted to the IESG. - BOFs are not permitted to meet three times. Huizer & Crocker [Page 10] RFC 1603 IETF Working Group Guidelines March 1994 - A BOF may be held for single-event discussion, or may pursue creation of normal IETF working groups for on-going interactions and discussions. When the request for a BOF comes from a formally-constituted group, rather than from an individual, the rules governing the handling of the request are the same as for all other BOFs and working groups. - When necessary, WGs will be given priority for meeting space over BOFs. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D from mboned Working Group charter Description of Working Group The MBONE Deployment Working Group will be a forum for coordinating the deployment, engineering, and operation of multicast routing protocols and procedures in the global Internet. This activity will include, but not be limited to: - Deployment of multicast routing in the global Internet. - Receive regular reports on the current state of the deployment of mbone technology. Create "practice and experience" documents that capture the experience of those who have deployed and are deploying various MBONE technologies (e.g. PIM, DVMRP, CBT). - Based on reports and other information, provide feedback to IDMR. - Develop mechanisms and procedures to aid in the transition to native multicast, where appropriate. - Develop mechanisms and procedures for sharing operational information to aid in operation of the global MBONE. - Development of guidelines to improve the use of administratively scoped multicast addresses. - Develop mechanisms and procedures for creating and maintaining a MBONE topology database. This working group will initially interact closely with IDMR. It is believed that, once hierarchical multicast routing systems are specified and deployed, the working groups will diverge somewhat. Goals and Milestones will be subject to discussions within the working group. Goals and Milestones: Sep 96 Establish initial charter, goals, and long-term group agenda. Sep 96 Submit Internet-Draft on inter-provider coordination of the deployment of pruning mrouteds. Jan 97 Submit Internet-Draft outlining requirements for the existing MBONE infrastructure. Apr 97 Submit Internet-Draft specifying the use of administratively scoped multicast addresses. Jun 97 Begin work, with RPS WG, on extensions to RPSL to describe multicast routing policy. Jun 97 Subnmit Internet-Draft specifying the use of aggregation for DVMRP (and, in general where applicable). In addition, address the use of DVMRP default. Sep 97 Submit Internet-Draft specifying the use of native multicast where appropriate (e.g. exchange points). Sep 97 Begin work on document of co-existence strategies for IPv4 multicast and IPv6 multicast. Dec 97 Begin work on a document describing the deployment of inter-provider hirearchical multicast routing coordination (or, when available). - end From crawdad@fnal.gov Tue Oct 15 20:30:57 1996 From: crawdad@fnal.gov (Matt Crawford) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 14:30:57 -0500 Subject: a 6bone BOF at the San Jose IETF In-Reply-To: "15 Oct 1996 09:18:01 PDT." <"v03007800ae8963cf2f4f"@[128.3.9.22]> Message-ID: <199610151930.OAA17744@gungnir.fnal.gov> Bob, There has been some expression on this list of an opinion that 6bone work shouldn't be done under the IETF umbrella. I disagree, but not very strongly. The idea of resurrecting the TACIT WG for our purposes sprang to mind, but it seems to have evaporated after two BOF meetings. (I'm writing to Tony H to check, but that's all the sign of it I can see.) A 6bone BOF and subsequent WG would be fine with me. There may be organizations wishing to deploy IPV6 internally or with others, but not wishing to join our 6bone, so another name such as "IPv6 Deployment" might be more inclusive. But not as cool-sounding. Matt From bound@zk3.dec.com Tue Oct 15 20:50:18 1996 From: bound@zk3.dec.com (bound@zk3.dec.com) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 15:50:18 -0400 Subject: a 6bone BOF at the San Jose IETF In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 15 Oct 96 09:18:01 PDT." Message-ID: <9610151950.AA01732@fwasted.zk3.dec.com> Bob, I think this would be very useful to determine if a WG could produce something of value. I think a BOF would be a good idea. /jim From RLFink@lbl.gov Wed Oct 16 15:48:31 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:48:31 -0700 Subject: San Jose IETF 6bone BOF Message-ID: As I have had nothing but positive comments on an "official BOF" at San Jose, both online and offline, I have sent the following to the IETF agenda folk to get it rolling. My concern is that waiting any longer will risk not getting a time slot at all. However, please keep the discussion up so we can maintain a focus at the BOF= =2E At worst, we decide no working group desired, report this to the area directors and go our merry way. Can't hurt :-) As the requestor of the BOF, I will be its chair, but this has nothing to do with what you decide to do for a working group. Thanks, Bob =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:38:40 -0700 To: agenda@ietf.org =46rom: Bob Fink LBNL Subject: arranging for a 6bone BOF at the San Jose IETF Cc: mo@uunet.uu.net, RLFink@lbl.gov, sob@harvard.edu Per Scott Bradner's email below, I am requesting an agenda slot at the San Jose IETF meeting for a 6bone BOF under the Operational Requirements Area. It would be mosty helpful to not have this scheduled against IPng meetings as this is a highly related activity, and of course no one wants Fridays :-) The purpose of this BOF is to decide if a 6bone deployment working group would be helpful to the 6bone process that is already underway, and to discuss other ongoing items of 6bone business. You can see current 6bone information at: http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/ I have also enclosed an overview of the 6bone activities below. The agenda will be: 1. Discussion of usefulness and goals of a 6bone deployment working group 2. Ongoing 6bone business I will act as chair of the BOF and be responsible for its report and roster. Please let me know what else you may need to aid in setting this BOF up. Thanks, Bob Fink =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 16:18:24 -0400 (EDT) =46rom: Scott Bradner To: mo@uunet.uu.net, RLFink@lbl.gov, sob@harvard.edu Subject: Re: 6bone BOF for the IETF in San Jose Bob, Sorry for the delay in getting back to you - yes, I think it is fine for you to hold a 6bone BOF you need to do a writeup on what the BOF is about and an agenda and send them to agenda@ietf.org with a cc to mike & me Scott =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D 6bone Overview (from the 6bone web pages) The 6bone is an independent outgrowth of the IETF IPng project that resulted in the creation of the IPv6 protocols intended eventually to replace the current Internet network layer protocols known as IPv4. The 6bone is currently an informal collaborative project covering North America, Europe, and Japan. One essential part in the IPv4 to IPv6 transition is the development of an Internet-wide IPv6 backbone infrastructure that can transport IPv6 packets. As with the existing IPv4 Internet backbone, the IPv6 backbone infrastructure will be composed of many Internet Service Providers (ISPs) and user networks linked together to provide the world-wide Internet. Until the IPv6 protocols are widely implemented and fully tested for interoperability, production ISP and user network routers will not readily place production Internet (IPv4) routers at risk. Thus a way is needed to provide Internet-wide IPv6 transport in an organized and orderly way for early testing and early use. The 6bone is a virtual network layered on top of portions of the physical IPv4-based Internet to support routing of IPv6 packets, as that function has not yet been integrated into many production routers. The network is composed of islands that can directly support IPv6 packets, linked by virtual point-to-point links called "tunnels". The tunnel endpoints are typically workstation-class machines having operating system support for Ipv6. Over time, as confidence builds to allow production routers to carry native IPv6 packets, it is expected that the 6bone would disappear by agreement of all parties. It would be replaced in a transparent way by production ISP and user network IPv6 Internet-wide transport. The 6bone is thus focused on providing the early policy and procedures necessary to provide IPv6 transport in a reasonable fashion so testing and experience can be carried out. It would not attempt to provide new network interconnect architectures, procedures and policies that are clearly the purview of ISP and user network operators. In fact, it is the desire to include as many ISP and user network operators in the 6bone process as possible to guarantee a seamless transition to IPv6. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D =10 From RLFink@lbl.gov Wed Oct 16 16:04:34 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 08:04:34 -0700 Subject: 6bone logo contest Message-ID: Time has come to vote for the 6bone logo of your choice. You can see them all at: http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/logos/6bone_logos.html So please email me your vote (one per customer :-) by close of your business day, 23 October (Wed.), clearly stating which logo you want. CC the list if you want, I don't think this is a secret deal :-) And please don't vote for mine; it is not really a logo, just a place holder. The goal is to select a logo we think will look really great on the web pages AND the T-shirts I will have made and sell (at cost) to better advertize and motivate the world towards IPv6. My plan is to have them for the San Jose meeting as transportation from Berkeley is real easy for me that way. I would also like suggestions for text to go with the logo, front and back. And possible color for the T (I hate pure white). Just express your own desires. I'll sort it out. Also, tell me your size preference. If I don't hear otherwise, all T's will be X-Large as this works for everyone (even the women typically like them extra large). I will make some moderately large production run of these T's for sale (again, at cost only...I'm not making money here). So please suggest a quantity of T's you think I should have made. To summarize, please send me by close of your business day, 23rd October: 1. your logo choice 2. some suggestions for text (front and back) 3. your color preference for the T (tho the logo may dictate this?) 4. your size preference 5. an estimate of how many I should have made Thanks, Bob From RLFink@lbl.gov Wed Oct 16 23:15:11 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:15:11 -0700 Subject: a new 6bone logo from Jim Fleming Message-ID: A new, very fishy, 6bone logo has just been submitted by Jim Fleming and is now on the 6bone logo page: http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/logos/6bone_logos.html Thanks, Bob ========================================= From: Jim Fleming To: "'RLFink@lbl.gov'" Subject: 6bone logo Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:08:28 -0500 Bob, Feel free to copy my 6bone logo entry from... http://doorstep.unety.net/6bone/6bone.gif If possible, I would prefer to be an anonymous entrant...if not, that is OK...;-) -- Jim Fleming UNETY Systems, Inc. Naperville, IL e-mail: JimFleming@unety.net JimFleming@unety.net.s0.g0 (EDNS/IPv8) - From RLFink@lbl.gov Wed Oct 16 23:28:07 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 15:28:07 -0700 Subject: 6bone session scheduled Message-ID: Just received from the IETF secretariat. Bob ====================================== Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:33:29 -0400 To: Bob Fink LBNL From: Marcia Beaulieu Subject: SAN JOSE IETF: 6BONE BOF Cc: mo@uunet.uu.net, sob@harvard.edu Bob, This is to confirm one session for 6BONE as follows: Tuesday, December 10 at 1530 (opposite ftpext, rip, ipsec, ion) Marcia - From RLFink@lbl.gov Fri Oct 18 21:30:08 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:30:08 -0700 Subject: 6bone map change - new tunnel from CISCO/US to KIT/KZ Message-ID: 6bone drawing version 28: add tunnel from CISCO/US to new 6bone site KIT/KZ This one is in Kazakhstan! Neat! Welcome to KIT/KZ. Thanks, Bob =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =46rom: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:43:41 PDT To: rlfink@lbl.gov Subject: new 6bone site Bob, The tunnel between KIT and cisco is now up. The KIT entry at RIPE is now = in place and I just updated the cisco entry at RIPE to include the KIT data. A sample ping is appended below. Ran rja@cisco.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 6bone-router#ping ipv6 kz-ipv6 Type escape sequence to abort. Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F15:3A00:C2E2:8000:0060:0080:C82F:2003, timeout is 2 seconds: !!!!! Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max =3D 856/901/976 ms ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From RLFink@lbl.gov Mon Oct 21 20:01:35 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:01:35 -0700 Subject: the T-shirt Message-ID: I would like to propose a design and some text for the Tshirt. I want this to help sell IPv6 at the IETF...and communicate the message that IPv6 is successful and that there is no good reason to not "just do it" (sorry about that, supposed to stay neutral :-) On the front (smaller in size than the back): LOGO "Deploying IPv6 The next generation step for the Internet " On the back (larger in size than the front): 6bone diagram "10 countries 4 router implementations 7 host implementations" If folk in general like the idea of the counts under the map, then I need to have an accurate count of implementations. I believe the country count is already correct at 10. DE, DK, FR, JP, KZ, NL, PT, SE, UK, US. For routers I know of Bay, Cisco, Digital and Telebit as operational at this time on the 6bone. That's 4. For host implementations I know of NRL 4.4BSD-Lite, AIX, WIDE BSDI/OS, Digital UNIX, SICS HP-UX, INRIA NetBSD, and Solaris 2 as operational at this time on the 6bone. That's 7. Comments, corrections and updates appreciated. If it's all a bad idea, please say so! Thanks, Bob From ahoag@nas.nasa.gov Mon Oct 21 20:22:45 1996 From: ahoag@nas.nasa.gov (Andrew J. Hoag) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:22:45 -0700 Subject: the T-shirt In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL "the T-shirt" (Oct 21, 12:01pm) References: Message-ID: <9610211222.ZM19916@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> On Oct 21, 12:01pm, Bob Fink LBNL wrote: > Subject: the T-shirt > I would like to propose a design and some text for the Tshirt. I want this > ... > If folk in general like the idea of the counts under the map, then I need > ... > Comments, corrections and updates appreciated. My only nit would be _iff_ you are going to put the counts on the shirt, then you it would make sense to tie it to a frozen moment in time, i.e. "December '96 IETF" somewhere on the shirt. Random thoughts off the top of my head (watch for flying debris) might include saying something like "IP Next Generation for This Generation" (probably too cheesy) or "IP Next Generation" and cross out the "Next Generation" with an overstrike and put "version 6" in its place -- something to the effect of showing progress and that IPng is no longer a "futuristic" idea and is actually happening on the Internet _now_. (Which, correct me if I'm wrong Bob, is part of the goal of the T-shirt). -- | Andrew Hoag | MS 258-6 | Voice: (415) 604-4972 | | Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 | Fax: (415) 604-4377 | | High-Speed LAN +------------------------+---+--------------------+ | NAS Facility | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov | -- From templin@nas.nasa.gov Mon Oct 21 20:27:53 1996 From: templin@nas.nasa.gov (Fred L. Templin) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:27:53 -0700 Subject: the T-shirt Message-ID: <199610211927.MAA20452@osprey.nas.nasa.gov> Bob, I like the idea for the front of the shirt, and I like the idea of the map for the back of the shirt (any chance the 3-D VRML version of the map would translate well to 2-D?). But, I would advocate avoiding numbers of countries, implementations, etc. Numbers imply a static system, whereas we're trying to give the impression of something growing dynamically. Maybe instead of listing the numbers you could just have the VRML globe with a caption something like: "Today the 6Bone; tomorrow the world" ?? Regards, Fred templin@nas.nasa.gov From roque@di.fc.ul.pt Mon Oct 21 20:45:14 1996 From: roque@di.fc.ul.pt (Pedro Roque) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 20:45:14 +0100 Subject: the T-shirt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199610211945.UAA18063@oberon.di.fc.ul.pt> >>>>> "Bob" == Bob Fink LBNL writes: Bob> For host implementations I know of NRL 4.4BSD-Lite, AIX, WIDE Bob> BSDI/OS, Digital UNIX, SICS HP-UX, INRIA NetBSD, and Solaris Bob> 2 as operational at this time on the 6bone. That's 7. And Linux. That's 8. And btw my guess is that most of that implementations can actually route (Linux, the BSDs, Sun, etc) ... so workstation implementations might be better. Also you may want to get in touch with FTP software folks to see if they are interested in being the nineth. ./Pedro. From crawdad@fnal.gov Mon Oct 21 21:17:30 1996 From: crawdad@fnal.gov (Matt Crawford) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:17:30 -0500 Subject: the T-shirt In-Reply-To: "21 Oct 1996 12:01:35 PDT." <"v0300780fae916bd80cba"@[128.3.9.22]> Message-ID: <199610212017.PAA00401@gungnir.fnal.gov> I agree that if you have counts -- or a map -- you need a date. You could do the rock and roll thing on the back and say [[ MAP ]] IPv6 World Tour October 1996 Denmark Kazakhstan (site) (site) (site) Netherlands France (site) (site) (site) (site) . . . (site) . . . Here's a possible quip for the front: [[ LOGO ]] "Now We Are Six" Re: colors: yes, plain white is putrid. And *everyone* does gray. How about a light blue? Matt My computer can display 24 million colors. I can name eight of them. From deering@parc.xerox.com Mon Oct 21 22:02:28 1996 From: deering@parc.xerox.com (Steve Deering) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:02:28 PDT Subject: the T-shirt In-Reply-To: crawdad's message of Mon, 21 Oct 96 13:17:30 -0800. <199610212017.PAA00401@gungnir.fnal.gov> Message-ID: <96Oct21.140228pdt."75271"@digit.parc.xerox.com> > Here's a possible quip for the front: > > [[ LOGO ]] > "Now We Are Six" I like that! (The Internet as Christopher Robin.) > Re: colors: yes, plain white is putrid. And *everyone* does gray. > How about a light blue? If we're voting on colors, I vote for a dark color, e.g., navy, maroon, or dark green. Steve From templin@nas.nasa.gov Mon Oct 21 22:14:55 1996 From: templin@nas.nasa.gov (Fred L. Templin) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:14:55 -0700 Subject: the T-shirt Message-ID: <199610212114.OAA20738@osprey.nas.nasa.gov> > with a caption something like: "Today the 6Bone; tomorrow the world" ?? I've been informed in a private e-mail exchange that the "Today X, tomorrow the world" slogan was borne in the Nazi era in Germany, and may be offensive to some. Since I had no intentions of alluding to the 6bone efforts as a facsist takover, I'd like to withraw this proposal immediately and apologize in advance for anyone who found the suggestion offensive. So far, my vote goes to a "IPv6 World Tour" theme ala' Matt Crawford's suggestion. (But, unlike Matt, I vote for gray tee-shirts!) Regards, Fred templin@nas.nasa.gov From ahoag@nas.nasa.gov Mon Oct 21 22:27:31 1996 From: ahoag@nas.nasa.gov (Andrew J. Hoag) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:27:31 -0700 Subject: the T-shirt In-Reply-To: Steve Deering "Re: the T-shirt" (Oct 21, 2:02pm) References: <96Oct21.140228pdt."75271"@digit.parc.xerox.com> Message-ID: <9610211427.ZM20233@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> > If we're voting on colors, I vote for a dark color, e.g., navy, maroon, > or dark green. Dark green would look sharp and not be that common. Either that or navy as my second vote. I'm sick of the white/black Ts. -- | Andrew Hoag | MS 258-6 | Voice: (415) 604-4972 | | Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 | Fax: (415) 604-4377 | | High-Speed LAN +------------------------+---+--------------------+ | NAS Facility | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov | -- From RLFink@lbl.gov Tue Oct 22 02:13:08 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:13:08 -0700 Subject: 6bone map change - new tunnel from NRL/US to new site CAIRN/US Message-ID: 6bone drawing version 29: new tunnel from NRL/US to new 6bone site CAIRN/US (USC-ISI- Welcome to USC/ISI east! Thanks, Bob =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D To: RLFink@lbl.gov Cc: mankin@isi.edu, tgibbons@isi.edu Subject: 6bone map update Reply-To: suresh@isi.edu Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:22:41 EDT =46rom: Suresh Bhogavilli Bob, CAIRN project is now connected to the 6bone through a tunnel between USC/ISI east and NRL. Can you update the 6bone map to reflect this? Our prefix is: 5f1b:a900::0/32 This is the ping data: sol(65):suresh% ping -s 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5 PING 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5: 56 data bytes 104 bytes from 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5: icmp_seq=3D0. time=3D36 ms 104 bytes from 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5: icmp_seq=3D1. time=3D30 ms 104 bytes from 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5: icmp_seq=3D2. time=3D30 ms 104 bytes from 5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5: icmp_seq=3D3. time=3D33 ms ^C ----5f00:3000:84fa:5a00::5 PING Statistics---- 4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip (ms) min/avg/max =3D 30/32/36 Thanks, Suresh From bound@zk3.dec.com Tue Oct 22 04:54:05 1996 From: bound@zk3.dec.com (bound@zk3.dec.com) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 23:54:05 -0400 Subject: the T-shirt In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 21 Oct 96 12:01:35 PDT." Message-ID: <9610220354.AA05733@wasted.zk3.dec.com> Bob, I like the idea a lot. I like all the ideas suggested so I don't care much which way we go. But the logo and map is a good idea too and the implementations too. Colors.. Don't care but I agree White is a bit overdone. But most important I want to purchase 3 of them so I can wear them all week (size large). Nice of you to do this for us too. Pretty cool!!!!! thanks /jim From igor@kit.kz Tue Oct 22 09:30:29 1996 From: igor@kit.kz (Igor Sharfmesser) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:30:29 +0600 (GMT+0600) Subject: the T-shirt Message-ID: <199610220830.OAA23794@mail.kit.kz> Nice idea. I vote for any logo and map. Saying about colors, it would be nice if have t-shirts in two or three t-shirts different colors. Igor From mccann@zk3.dec.com Tue Oct 22 12:51:28 1996 From: mccann@zk3.dec.com (Jack McCann USG) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 07:51:28 -0400 Subject: 6bone logo contest Message-ID: <9610221151.AA17953@wasted.zk3.dec.com> > 1. your logo choice http://www-6bone.lbl.gov/6bone/logos/stpierre2.jpg > 2. some suggestions for text IPv6: We've got it now! IPv6: It's alive! IPv6: It has arrived! IPv6: It's here, it's now, it's happening! IPv6 here and now IPv6 now! IPv6 lives! IPv6: live on the 6bone! Whew, I really should cut out that 4th cup of coffee... > 3. your color preference I like Steve's suggestion of something dark (green? blue? maroon?) > 4. your size preference XL in a nice heavy tshirt sounds good > 5. an estimate of how many I should have made I'm good for a couple - Jack From masaki@merit.edu Tue Oct 22 14:12:44 1996 From: masaki@merit.edu (Masaki Hirabaru) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 09:12:44 -0400 Subject: configuring a router Message-ID: <199610221312.JAA12115@merit.edu> 6bone folks, I'd like to ask a question about how to specify a peer address in a router configuration. In the previous discussion on ripng, I understand p-to-p links including a tunnel may also have a link-local address. Which address should be used in configuring a router, global address, link-local address, or both? I can agree that all routing update packets should have a link-local source address, but even in that case, should we use a link-local address to specify the peer? I know the use of link-local address makes peer's renumbering easy, but I think it's also true a link-local address sometimes changes, for example, by replacing an interface card. Does someone have an idea? Masaki From igor@kit.kz Tue Oct 22 15:18:35 1996 From: igor@kit.kz (Igor Sharfmesser) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 20:18:35 +0600 (GMT+0600) Subject: Another tought on t-shirt Message-ID: <199610221418.UAA07992@mail.kit.kz> What about 6bone: Get Connected! above or below the map? Igor From Alain.Durand@imag.fr Tue Oct 22 15:35:52 1996 From: Alain.Durand@imag.fr (Alain Durand) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 15:35:52 +0100 Subject: 6bone logo contest In-Reply-To: Jack McCann USG "Re: 6bone logo contest" (Oct 22, 7:51am) References: <9610221151.AA17953@wasted.zk3.dec.com> Message-ID: <961022153552.ZM4484@rama.imag.fr> I like the idea a lot. I like the map & the world tour idea. Colors? dark green is my favorite. I'll order probably many of them, several folks in the G6 will like to have it. - Alain. From crawdad@fnal.gov Tue Oct 22 14:40:51 1996 From: crawdad@fnal.gov (Matt Crawford) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 08:40:51 -0500 Subject: the T-shirt In-Reply-To: "21 Oct 1996 14:27:31 PDT." <"9610211427.ZM20233"@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <199610221340.IAA01625@gungnir.fnal.gov> I can live with the green. From ronlee@CS.NRL.NAVY.MIL Tue Oct 22 21:31:23 1996 From: ronlee@CS.NRL.NAVY.MIL (Ronald Lee) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the T-shirt Message-ID: <9610221631.aa01103@CS.NRL.NAVY.MIL> Gang, I prefer the traditional white, because I picked Brad St Pierre's main logo which looks great in a white background. Gray (another favorite choice of mine) might do nicely. These days I prefer t-shirts that have a small logo over the heart rather than something like Superman's 'S'. The backside can be a larger logo with more text (e.g. the world tour idea sounds good). If Brad has time, maybe he can show us what other color arrangements are possible with the "dark colors" tee's. Since I like my t-shirts loose and made of the tuff stuff, a heavy-weight XL is desired. Whelp, them's my picks. Thanks! Ron ronald.d.lee@nrl.navy.mil From templin@nas.nasa.gov Tue Oct 22 21:52:52 1996 From: templin@nas.nasa.gov (Fred L. Templin) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:52:52 -0700 Subject: the T-shirt Message-ID: <199610222052.NAA24412@osprey.nas.nasa.gov> About sizes, I'd like to request that a few be made up in XXL. I'll bone up for two XXL T-shirts myself; don't know if any others need this size... Regards, Fred templin@nas.nasa.gov From meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 22 22:13:16 1996 From: meyer@network-services.uoregon.edu (David M. Meyer 541/346-1747) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the T-shirt In-Reply-To: <199610222052.NAA24412@osprey.nas.nasa.gov> from "Fred L. Templin" at Oct 22, 96 01:52:52 pm Message-ID: <199610222113.OAA22887@wayback.uoregon.edu> I'll go along with Fred on XXL. Dave According to Fred L. Templin: > > About sizes, I'd like to request that a few be made up in XXL. I'll > bone up for two XXL T-shirts myself; don't know if any others need > this size... > > Regards, > > Fred > templin@nas.nasa.gov > From colinj@parc.anglia.ac.uk Wed Oct 23 10:36:44 1996 From: colinj@parc.anglia.ac.uk (Colin Johnston) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 10:36:44 +0100 Subject: Application to join 6bone Message-ID: <199610230936.KAA00737@maverick.parc.anglia.ac.uk> Hi, I have setup IPv6 on a SUN Ultra machine and Sparc10MP machine for about 6 months now. Everything seems stable and lots of tests have been done. How do I tunnel into the 6bone for tests etc. There seems to be no 6bone tunnels in the UK at present ?? I am new to using the the RIPE registery and cannot make the ftp quote site gpass ***** command work. Any ideas Thanks Colin Johnston PARC Research Team Anglia Polytechnic University UK From Alain.Durand@imag.fr Wed Oct 23 15:14:12 1996 From: Alain.Durand@imag.fr (Alain Durand) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 15:14:12 +0100 Subject: Tool to help building routes In-Reply-To: templin@nas.nasa.gov (Fred L. Templin) "Re: the T-shirt" (Oct 22, 1:52pm) References: <199610222052.NAA24412@osprey.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <961023151412.ZM5783@rama.imag.fr> Hi I have made a little tool to help buiding IPv6 routes in the 6-bone. It uses the RIPE database to compute the shortest paths from a node to another one. Currently, all local metrics are set to one. Example: === path from G6 to CAIRN (5f1b:a900::0/32) : cost 3 G6-(1)->CISCO-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN G6-(1)->NIST-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN G6-(1)->UL-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN G6-(1)->UNH-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN This tools is avalaible at http://www.ipv6.imag.fr/route.html I would like to modify the output to give more info, I'm just not sure what is really relevant. Suggestions are welcome. - Alain. From RLFink@lbl.gov Wed Oct 23 15:56:23 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 07:56:23 -0700 Subject: Tool to help building routes In-Reply-To: <961023151412.ZM5783@rama.imag.fr> References: templin@nas.nasa.gov (Fred L. Templin) "Re: the T-shirt" (Oct 22, 1:52pm) <199610222052.NAA24412@osprey.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: I have put a pointer to Alain's very neat v6 route tool on the 6bone homepag= e. This is a great tool!! Thanks Alain, Bob =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D At 7:14 AM -0700 10/23/96, Alain Durand wrote: >Hi > >I have made a little tool to help buiding IPv6 routes in the 6-bone. >It uses the RIPE database to compute the shortest paths from a node >to another one. Currently, all local metrics are set to one. > >Example: >=3D=3D=3D path from G6 to CAIRN (5f1b:a900::0/32) : cost 3 > > G6-(1)->CISCO-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN > G6-(1)->NIST-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN > G6-(1)->UL-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN > G6-(1)->UNH-(1)->NRL-(1)->CAIRN > >This tools is avalaible at http://www.ipv6.imag.fr/route.html > >I would like to modify the output to give more info, I'm just not sure >what is really relevant. Suggestions are welcome. > > - Alain. - end From latzko@marsenius.rutgers.edu Wed Oct 23 22:09:40 1996 From: latzko@marsenius.rutgers.edu (Alex Latzko) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 96 17:09:40 EDT Subject: connection Message-ID: I would like to find a place to connect to the 6bone. Physically we're in central NJ, emotionally on Uunet. Please point me in the correct direction. thanks alex latzko@hardees.rutgers.edu {backbone}!rutgers!latzko Alex Latzko 908/445 5021 (voice) 908/445 2968 (fax) Rutgers University Computing Services TD:NOG PO Box 0879, Piscataway, NJ 08855-0879 From RLFink@lbl.gov Wed Oct 23 22:44:43 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:44:43 -0700 Subject: 6bone logo - Brad St. Pierre design wins! Message-ID: The great logo contest is over! The Brad St. Pierre design (the first of his 3) has won by about a two to one margin over the Gustavo Sanchez Gomez logo (which happened to be my favorite). The other designs received about one or two votes each. Congratulations and thanks to Brad!! My thanks also to all the logo designers! Their efforts are for a good cause. I intend to leave the logos page up, tho I have changed the logo on the 6bone pages to Brad's (ignore its scaling; I'll get it right eventually). Thanks, Bob From RLFink@lbl.gov Thu Oct 24 01:21:57 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:21:57 -0700 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page Message-ID: 6bone folk: I've put up a few pages showing the Tshirt layout I'm planning. See the bottom of the 6bone main web page for the pointer. Corrections, additions, slings and arrows all received gratefully. My first cut of countries and sites may have missed someone. I'm also erring on the side of including those that assure me they are in progress. If I've missed anyone, my apologies. Just let me know :-) Thanks, Bob From ahoag@nas.nasa.gov Thu Oct 24 01:36:58 1996 From: ahoag@nas.nasa.gov (Andrew J. Hoag) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:36:58 -0700 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL "Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 23, 5:21pm) References: Message-ID: <9610231736.ZM29108@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> On Oct 23, 5:21pm, Bob Fink LBNL wrote: > Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page > > [ plain text > Encoded with "quoted-printable" ] : 6bone folk: > > I've put up a few pages showing the Tshirt layout I'm planning. See the > bottom of the 6bone main web page for the pointer. > > Corrections, additions, slings and arrows all received gratefully. Looks absolutely great Bob!! Sign me up for 2 XL!! -- | Andrew Hoag | MS 258-6 | Voice: (415) 604-4972 | | Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 | Fax: (415) 604-4377 | | High-Speed LAN +------------------------+---+--------------------+ | NAS Facility | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov | -- From RLFink@lbl.gov Fri Oct 25 16:36:24 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 08:36:24 -0700 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: <9610241120.ZM8134@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> References: Bob Fink LBNL "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 24, 6:57am) Bob Fink LBNL "Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 23 5:21pm) Message-ID: Andrew, At 11:20 AM -0700 10/24/96, Andrew J. Hoag wrote: =2E.. >Well if the lines are black (best contrast on light blue background), what >color would you like the globe to be? I still think green would be great (green earth and all that warm and fuzzy environmental stuff). >A view centered on about Greenland (find a globe and try it if you don't ha= ve >VRML) will display Europe and US about the same, with 3 huge tunnels going >over >the horizon to Japan. You can see a .jpg of it on the web at: > >http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/viz/t-shirt/ > >There is the europe-usa.jpg view and a npole.jpg view (North Pole >centered). My >personal preference is the europe-usa view ... The colors could probably be >tweaked in either one as needed. Wow! These are both fantastic! >If we want we can throw this out on the list... Any thoughts? Ok, to the list. 6bone folk: Look at Andrew's globe views and say which you like best. I vote for the Europe-USA version. Thanks, Bob From Alain.Durand@imag.fr Fri Oct 25 18:20:38 1996 From: Alain.Durand@imag.fr (Alain Durand) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:20:38 +0100 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 25, 8:36am) References: Bob Fink LBNL "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 24 6:57am) Bob Fink LBNL "Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 23 5:21pm) Message-ID: <961025182039.ZM8846@rama.imag.fr> My vote goes for the Europe-Usa version. A dark green T-shirt with a light bleu earth will be terrific! - Alain. From Alain.Durand@imag.fr Fri Oct 25 18:27:28 1996 From: Alain.Durand@imag.fr (Alain Durand) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:27:28 +0100 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: "Alain Durand" "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 25, 6:20pm) References: Bob Fink LBNL "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 24 6:57am) Bob Fink LBNL "Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 23 5:21pm) <961025182039.ZM8846@rama.imag.fr> Message-ID: <961025182728.ZM8979@rama.imag.fr> Just wondering: is the 3-D map up to date? - Alain. From RLFink@lbl.gov Fri Oct 25 19:22:55 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 11:22:55 -0700 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: <961025182728.ZM8979@rama.imag.fr> References: "Alain Durand" "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 25, 6:20pm) Bob Fink LBNL "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 24 6:57am) Bob Fink LBNL "Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 23 5:21pm) <961025182039.ZM8846@rama.imag.fr> Message-ID: At 10:27 AM -0700 10/25/96, Alain Durand wrote: >Just wondering: is the 3-D map up to date? It will be before the final cut so Andrew implies (Andrew?). Bob From rja@cisco.com Fri Oct 25 20:28:15 1996 From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 12:28:15 PDT Subject: new 6bone tunnels Message-ID: <199610251928.MAA04076@cornpuffs.cisco.com> Bob, I've updated the CISCO entry at RIPE. There are three new tunnels that now work (example pings appended below): Xerox PARC National University of Singapore (NUS-IRDU) Sumitomo (SUMITOMO-USA) If you could update the map accordingly when time permits, that would be much appreciated. All, If sites carrying full routing could add the appropriate routing table entries, that would be appreciated. Regards, Ran rja@cisco.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 6bone-router#ping ipv6 sumitomo-usa-ipv6 Type escape sequence to abort. Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F02:BD00:C054:7600::5FEC:44F4, timeout is 2 seconds: !!!!! Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 8/8/12 ms 6bone-router#ping ipv6 nus-ipv6 Type escape sequence to abort. Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F0E:AE00:8984::0013:0020:AFA6:8E68, timeout is 2 seconds: !!!!! Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 260/305/356 ms 6bone-router#ping ipv6 xerox-parc-ipv6 Type escape sequence to abort. Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F11:D000:CCA2:E400:0001:0800:2009:7B1D, timeout is 2 seconds: !!!!! Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 8/14/24 ms ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From ahoag@nas.nasa.gov Fri Oct 25 21:10:33 1996 From: ahoag@nas.nasa.gov (Andrew J. Hoag) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:10:33 -0700 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 25, 11:22am) References: "Alain Durand" "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 25 6:20pm) Bob Fink LBNL "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 24 6:57am) Bob Fink LBNL "Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 23 5:21pm) <961025182039.ZM8846@rama.imag.fr> Message-ID: <9610251310.ZM13421@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> At 10:27 AM -0700 10/25/96, Alain Durand wrote: > >Just wondering: is the 3-D map up to date? > > It will be before the final cut so Andrew implies (Andrew?). Yes, you bet. Bob desires the final seperations on Monday/Tuesday of next week, so I'll probably freeze the map on Sunday or Monday morning. -- | Andrew Hoag | MS 258-6 | Voice: (415) 604-4972 | | Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 | Fax: (415) 604-4377 | | High-Speed LAN +------------------------+---+--------------------+ | NAS Facility | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov | -- From RLFink@lbl.gov Fri Oct 25 21:27:54 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:27:54 -0700 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: <9610251310.ZM13421@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> References: Bob Fink LBNL "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 25, 11:22am) "Alain Durand" "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 25 6:20pm) Bob Fink LBNL "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 24 6:57am) Bob Fink LBNL "Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 23 5:21pm) <961025182039.ZM8846@rama.imag.fr> Message-ID: Andrew, >Yes, you bet. Bob desires the final seperations on Monday/Tuesday of next >week, >so I'll probably freeze the map on Sunday or Monday morning. We can now wait about a week (my graphics person says not to rush). Let's say Nov 4th for now. My graphics person is working the approriate color issue as we speak, but is leaning to the green globe with the red country boundary lines, and blue to black node lines. However, she has asked that the node lines be bulked up a bit. More as I know it. Thanks, Bob From rja@cisco.com Fri Oct 25 21:57:11 1996 From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:57:11 PDT Subject: new 6bone node Message-ID: <199610252057.NAA05163@cornpuffs.cisco.com> Bob, I've just finished configuring a tunnel to Western Washington University (WWU) from 6bone-router.cisco.com. I've updated the cisco entry at RIPE accordingly just now (2nd update today) and I'm told that WWU will add an entry at RIPE later today. Please add it to the 6bone map when time permits. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 6bone-router#ping ipv6 wwu-ipv6 Type escape sequence to abort. Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F02:AD00:8CA0::00A6:00C0:D108:0877, timeout is 2 seconds: !!!!! Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 56/58/64 ms ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It would be nice if folks maintaining full 6bone routing would update their routing tables to reflect Xerox PARC, Sumitomo, NUS, and WWU when time permits. Thanks, Ran rja@cisco.com -- From rja@cisco.com Fri Oct 25 22:00:55 1996 From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 14:00:55 PDT Subject: t-shirt graphic Message-ID: <199610252100.OAA05208@cornpuffs.cisco.com> I actually would prefer to have Bob Fink's map on the t-shirt rather than the 3D map for two reasons. One, Bob's map makes the surprisingly large number of active IPv6 nodes more obvious to people seeing the t-shirt. Two, there are a fair number of active Asian sites (KIT, KEK, WIDE, NUS, SUMITOMO-JP; WIDE is actually a cluster not just a single site) and the 3D MAP orientation does not give them equal presence while Bob's map does give them equal presence. I'd like to avoid a euro-centric approach in fairness to other parts of the globe. :-) Ran rja@cisco.com -- From ahoag@nas.nasa.gov Fri Oct 25 22:19:16 1996 From: ahoag@nas.nasa.gov (Andrew J. Hoag) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 14:19:16 -0700 Subject: t-shirt graphic In-Reply-To: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) "t-shirt graphic" (Oct 25, 2:00pm) References: <199610252100.OAA05208@cornpuffs.cisco.com> Message-ID: <9610251419.ZM14042@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> > equal presence. I'd like to avoid a euro-centric approach in fairness > to other parts of the globe. :-) That _exact_ feeling was the reason I at first, didn't advocate using the 3D map at all, and then advocated the North Pole version of the map. Although, in the shirt's current incantation of "6bone World Tour" I feel some sort of representation of the world would go hand-in-hand. Does anyone else on the list have a strong preference for one of the three choices? (Topographical map, 3-D polar view, 3-D Euro-centric?) Bob? It's your T-shirt... ;-) -- | Andrew Hoag | MS 258-6 | Voice: (415) 604-4972 | | Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 | Fax: (415) 604-4377 | | High-Speed LAN +------------------------+---+--------------------+ | NAS Facility | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov | -- From RLFink@lbl.gov Fri Oct 25 23:02:05 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:02:05 -0700 Subject: t-shirt graphic In-Reply-To: <9610251419.ZM14042@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> References: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) "t-shirt graphic" (Oct 25, 2:00pm) <199610252100.OAA05208@cornpuffs.cisco.com> Message-ID: At 2:19 PM -0700 10/25/96, Andrew J. Hoag wrote: >> equal presence. I'd like to avoid a euro-centric approach in fairness >> to other parts of the globe. :-) > >That _exact_ feeling was the reason I at first, didn't advocate using the 3= D >map at all, and then advocated the North Pole version of the map. Although,= in >the shirt's current incantation of "6bone World Tour" I feel some sort of >representation of the world would go hand-in-hand. > >Does anyone else on the list have a strong preference for one of the three >choices? (Topographical map, 3-D polar view, 3-D Euro-centric?) > >Bob? It's your T-shirt... ;-) I believe the globe expresses the "wholeness/worldliness" of the project, and the Europe-USA format shows lots of US and Europe and VERY obvious links to the other side of the globe. As for showing details of who is really participating, the 6bone map I maintain doesn't show details of the larger clouds such as WIDE, G6 or UNI-C. It also shows details of interconnection that aren't necessarily the important part of the message. I believe the list under the globe is where to relate the long list of participants. After all, the goal is not really a Tshirt, but selling IPv6 and letting people know the scale of it. IMHO, the globe and a real long list of sites does just that. I would like to offer the various sites hidden in clouds (WIDE, G6, UNI-C et al) to come forward with their site names...I'll happily add them as they have a place in this message/celebration. So please throw site names at me...let's have the IETFers say to themselves, "wow, I didn't know that v6 had come so far...let's get aboard!!". Thanks, Bob From ahoag@nas.nasa.gov Fri Oct 25 23:24:47 1996 From: ahoag@nas.nasa.gov (Andrew J. Hoag) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:24:47 -0700 Subject: t-shirt In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL "Re: t-shirt graphic" (Oct 25, 3:02pm) References: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) "t-shirt graphic" (Oct 25 2:00pm) <199610252100.OAA05208@cornpuffs.cisco.com> Message-ID: <9610251524.ZM14635@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> On Oct 25, 3:02pm, Bob Fink LBNL wrote: > Subject: Re: t-shirt graphic > > [ plain text > Encoded with "quoted-printable" ] : At 2:19 PM -0700 10/25/96, Andrew J. Hoag wrote: > >> equal presence. I'd like to avoid a euro-centric approach in fairness > >> to other parts of the globe. :-) > > > >That _exact_ feeling was the reason I at first, didn't advocate using the 3D > >map at all, and then advocated the North Pole version of the map. Although, in > >the shirt's current incantation of "6bone World Tour" I feel some sort of > >representation of the world would go hand-in-hand. > > > >Does anyone else on the list have a strong preference for one of the three > >choices? (Topographical map, 3-D polar view, 3-D Euro-centric?) > > > >Bob? It's your T-shirt... ;-) > > I believe the globe expresses the "wholeness/worldliness" of the project, > and the Europe-USA format shows lots of US and Europe and VERY obvious > links to the other side of the globe. Yes, that is the other side of the coin. In fact, the links to Asia, et. al look very dramatic when positioned such on the globe. > I would like to offer the various sites hidden in clouds (WIDE, G6, UNI-C > et al) to come forward with their site names...I'll happily add them as > they have a place in this message/celebration. Just one nit: you could seperate out NASA-NAS and NASA-GSFC if you so desire, as we each brought up our sites independent of each other and generally are functioning as such. -- | Andrew Hoag | MS 258-6 | Voice: (415) 604-4972 | | Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 | Fax: (415) 604-4377 | | High-Speed LAN +------------------------+---+--------------------+ | NAS Facility | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov | -- From jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk Fri Oct 25 23:40:14 1996 From: jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk (Jonathan Day) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 23:40:14 +0100 (BST) Subject: t-shirt graphic In-Reply-To: <9610251419.ZM14042@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> from "Andrew J. Hoag" at Oct 25, 96 02:19:16 pm Message-ID: <199610252240.XAA29629@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk> > That _exact_ feeling was the reason I at first, didn't advocate using the 3D > map at all, and then advocated the North Pole version of the map. Although, in > the shirt's current incantation of "6bone World Tour" I feel some sort of > representation of the world would go hand-in-hand. > > Does anyone else on the list have a strong preference for one of the three > choices? (Topographical map, 3-D polar view, 3-D Euro-centric?) What's wrong with a Mercator projection? :) (Actually, that's a serious question - 3D displays aren't that easy to follow, when static. Projections have a definite advantage over them, especially for something like the globe.) Talking of maps, any idea when the GIFs will be updated? Jonathan From jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk Fri Oct 25 23:43:18 1996 From: jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk (Jonathan Day) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 23:43:18 +0100 (BST) Subject: t-shirt graphic In-Reply-To: <9610251419.ZM14042@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> from "Andrew J. Hoag" at Oct 25, 96 02:19:16 pm Message-ID: <199610252243.XAA29639@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk> > > > equal presence. I'd like to avoid a euro-centric approach in fairness > > to other parts of the globe. :-) > > That _exact_ feeling was the reason I at first, didn't advocate using the 3D > map at all, and then advocated the North Pole version of the map. Although, in > the shirt's current incantation of "6bone World Tour" I feel some sort of > representation of the world would go hand-in-hand. > > Does anyone else on the list have a strong preference for one of the three > choices? (Topographical map, 3-D polar view, 3-D Euro-centric?) What's wrong with a good old-fashioned Mercator projection? :) Actually, that's a serious question - it'd be easier to follow, as a static image, than a 3-D rendering, and is familiar enough to retain the 'whole- worldness' that's wanted. Jonathan From rja@cisco.com Sat Oct 26 00:02:19 1996 From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 16:02:19 PDT Subject: t-shirt graphic In-Reply-To: Jonathan Day "Re: t-shirt graphic" (Oct 25, 11:40pm) Message-ID: <199610252302.QAA07282@cornpuffs.cisco.com> The idea of a Mercator projection map is appealing, though I wouldn't know how to create one myself. It would show all sites on an equal basis, making both the number of sites and also the wide dispersion of sites very clear to anyone seeing the t-shirt. Ran -- From RLFink@lbl.gov Sat Oct 26 00:56:48 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 16:56:48 -0700 Subject: 6bone map change - new tunnels Message-ID: 6bone Diagram version 30: new tunnel from G6/FR to COSY/AT new tunnel from CISCO/US to SUMITOMO-JP new tunnel from CISCO/US to NUS-IRDU/KZ new tunnel from CISCO/US to WWU/US new tunnel from CISCO/US to PARC/US Welcome to all! Now we have Kazakhstan, Singapore and Austria! Thanks, Bob From RLFink@lbl.gov Sat Oct 26 22:03:43 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 14:03:43 -0700 Subject: on travel 27-31 Oct - may not respond to changes in 6bone on web Message-ID: I'm on travel from 27-31 Oct, and return 1 Nov. My email response as well as ability to fiddle with 6bone web pages (like the diagram) may be limited during that time. Thus don't be surpised if my responses are slow or non-existant till 1 Nov. Thanks, Bob From wmk@radyn.com Sat Oct 26 22:41:38 1996 From: wmk@radyn.com (William M. Kules) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 17:41:38 -0400 Subject: Looking for 6BONE hookup Message-ID: <32728592.1B60@radyn.com> As part of a project, I am attempting to implement IPv6 at the University of Maryland, College Park. We have installed the WIDE code on several BSDI systems and have it working on a local link, and we would like to extend our reach via a tunnel. I have reviewed the hookup info, and have 2 questions (so far): 1) Who is a good connection for tunnelling? Nasa/Goddard? NRL? Should I contact them directly? 2) Do we really need to be running a v6-aware name server to hookup? Many thanks, Bill Kules -- Bill Kules Radio Dynamics Corp., Silver Spring, MD wmk@radyn.com (301) 891-1036 From bound@zk3.dec.com Mon Oct 28 05:25:14 1996 From: bound@zk3.dec.com (bound@zk3.dec.com) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 00:25:14 -0500 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 23 Oct 96 17:21:57 PDT." Message-ID: <9610280525.AA27557@wasted.zk3.dec.com> Bob, I think we need to list the implementations that are "running" on the 6bone. Running means that implementation is sending packets. I did not see them just checking the T-Shirt buttons? Also I want Large. Not XXL or XL. In fact I know folks who will want Small and Medium, I think you need to take orders? So ????? thanks /jim From ahoag@nas.nasa.gov Mon Oct 28 18:04:56 1996 From: ahoag@nas.nasa.gov (Andrew J. Hoag) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:04:56 -0800 Subject: Threaded 6bone Mail Archive Message-ID: <9610281004.ZM29599@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> Over the weekend I did some work on http://www.ipv6.nas.nasa.gov/ and made the following changes / additions: * I created a "hypermail" archive of the 6bone mailing list. The biggest feature here is that we now have a threaded mail archive. Hopefully this should help newcomers to the list ramp up quicker. * I published our mirror of the RIPE-NCC IPv6 database. Since I'd been grabbing the database everyday anyways, I thought I might as well publish it. And since we sit right on FIX/MAE-WEST it could cut down on traffic across the ocean. * I updated the geographic maps. Finding the lat-long for Almaty, Kazakstan was a little bit of a trick, but it was out there. :-) * I added some tools to my toolkit to parse the RIPE database and found some inconsistencies. I bugged a few sites out there to get things up to snuff and everyone was amiable to fixing their entries (thanks!). On my count we are up to 40 sites with about 60 tunnels. If anyone has any questions/comments let me know! -- | Andrew Hoag | MS 258-6 | Voice: (415) 604-4972 | | Network Engineer | Moffett Field, CA 94035 | Fax: (415) 604-4377 | | High-Speed LAN +------------------------+---+--------------------+ | NAS Facility | http://www.gac.edu/~ahoag/ | ahoag@nas.nasa.gov | -- From RLFink@lbl.gov Tue Oct 29 01:06:53 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 17:06:53 -0800 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: <9610280525.AA27557@wasted.zk3.dec.com> References: Your message of "Wed, 23 Oct 96 17:21:57 PDT." Message-ID: Jim, At 9:25 PM -0800 10/27/96, bound@zk3.dec.com wrote: >I think we need to list the implementations that are "running" on the >6bone. Running means that implementation is sending packets. >I did not see them just checking the T-Shirt buttons? I had several folk tell me that it was a bad idea to do this, so am inclined not to. The list of countries/sites certainly goes a long way to saying it without getting vendor oriented. >Also I want Large. Not XXL or XL. In fact I know folks who will want >Small and Medium, Will do. >I think you need to take orders? Will formally ask for orders soon, but will do so by replaying an organized list of the informal orders I have so far. Thanks, Bob From bound@zk3.dec.com Tue Oct 29 03:25:28 1996 From: bound@zk3.dec.com (bound@zk3.dec.com) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 22:25:28 -0500 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 28 Oct 96 17:06:53 PST." Message-ID: <9610290325.AA11500@wasted.zk3.dec.com> Bob, >At 9:25 PM -0800 10/27/96, bound@zk3.dec.com wrote: >>I think we need to list the implementations that are "running" on the >>6bone. Running means that implementation is sending packets. >>I did not see them just checking the T-Shirt buttons? >> >I had several folk tell me that it was a bad idea to do this, so am >inclined not to. The list of countries/sites certainly goes a long way to >saying it without getting vendor oriented. And I heard several folks including me tell you this was a good idea. Why is their input affecting you and not mine and others? I must of have missed the mail unless it was private to you? IF they want to not have the implementations on the shirts which is recoginition to the engineers making all this *** really *** happen then let them stand up in public. And I think the vendors who have done implementations, providing FREE kits and upgrades, working with the users to debug problems, in some cases donating hardware, taking the time to manage the bug fixes we hear on the 6bone, have a right to be noted on these T-Shirts and vendors who say they are doing who don't participate on the 6bone should be seen that they are not participating. I HIGHLY OBJECT to it NOT BEING ON THE T-SHIRTS? But more importantly I TOTALLY OBJECT to this not being an OPEN discussion on the 6bone when the only reason the T-Shirts can say anything about the 6bone in part is because of the "IMPLEMENTATIONS" running code. It feels like POLITICS is taking precedence over DOING THE RIGHT THING. And you know how I am about that and the one thing that sends me into a loop of getting really pissed off. I hope I am wrong???? /jim From jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk Tue Oct 29 11:29:50 1996 From: jcday@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk (Jonathan Day) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 11:29:50 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Threaded 6bone Mail Archive In-Reply-To: <9610281004.ZM29599@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> from "Andrew J. Hoag" at Oct 28, 96 10:04:56 am Message-ID: <199610291129.LAA04231@jpd.ch.man.ac.uk> Hi > * I updated the geographic maps. Finding the lat-long for Almaty, Kazakstan was > a little bit of a trick, but it was out there. :-) The map certainly looks a lot more complex, now! Thanks for updating things. One or two quibbles, with the sites in the UK - I'm fairly sure Manchester's in the northwest of England, in Lancashire, rather than in the south, in Kent. Also, Aberdeen looks to be a little further north than on the map. :) These /are/ relatively trivial quibbles, when all is said and done. That there is a map showing /anything/ is good and that the sites are shown (albeit not in quite the right location in these two cases) is excellent. (Ok, I admit I'm making the assumption here that there aren't two other 6bone sites in the UK which aren't in the registry. :) If the site for England is indeed the UMAN site, then it needs to be two degrees further north and two degrees west of Grenwich. I'm not sure about the site in Aberdeen, but again, it's west, not east of Grenwich. Jonathan From Alain.Durand@imag.fr Tue Oct 29 13:20:39 1996 From: Alain.Durand@imag.fr (Alain Durand) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 14:20:39 +0100 Subject: RIPE database mirror In-Reply-To: "Andrew J. Hoag" "Threaded 6bone Mail Archive" (Oct 28, 10:04am) References: <9610281004.ZM29599@rennsport.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <961029142039.ZM1833@rama.imag.fr> Hi I have set up an automatic mirror of the RIPE database. See ftp://ftp.imag.fr/pub/archive/RIPE - Alain. From RLFink@lbl.gov Tue Oct 29 12:25:12 1996 From: RLFink@lbl.gov (Bob Fink LBNL) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 04:25:12 -0800 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: <9610290325.AA11500@wasted.zk3.dec.com> References: Your message of "Mon, 28 Oct 96 17:06:53 PST." Message-ID: 6bone folk, Given Jim Bound's comments about the vendor list, can I have a quick open survey before the end of the week on this? The question is, do you want or not want the vendor list and/or a count (e.g., 5 routers, 10 workstations)? I still intend to freeze the Tshirt layout by next Monday or Tuesday. Thanks, Bob =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D At 7:25 PM -0800 10/28/96, bound@zk3.dec.com wrote: >Bob, > > >>At 9:25 PM -0800 10/27/96, bound@zk3.dec.com wrote: >>>I think we need to list the implementations that are "running" on the >>>6bone. Running means that implementation is sending packets. >>>I did not see them just checking the T-Shirt buttons? >>> >>I had several folk tell me that it was a bad idea to do this, so am >>inclined not to. The list of countries/sites certainly goes a long way to >>saying it without getting vendor oriented. > >And I heard several folks including me tell you this was a good idea. >Why is their input affecting you and not mine and others? I must of >have missed the mail unless it was private to you? IF they want to not >have the implementations on the shirts which is recoginition to the >engineers making all this *** really *** happen then let them stand up >in public. > >And I think the vendors who have done implementations, providing FREE >kits and upgrades, working with the users to debug problems, in some >cases donating hardware, taking the time to manage the bug fixes we hear >on the 6bone, have a right to be noted on these T-Shirts and vendors who >say they are doing who don't participate on the 6bone should be seen >that they are not participating. > >I HIGHLY OBJECT to it NOT BEING ON THE T-SHIRTS? > >But more importantly I TOTALLY OBJECT to this not being an OPEN >discussion on the 6bone when the only reason the T-Shirts can say >anything about the 6bone in part is because of the "IMPLEMENTATIONS" >running code. > >It feels like POLITICS is taking precedence over DOING THE RIGHT THING. >And you know how I am about that and the one thing that sends me into a loo= p >of getting really pissed off. I hope I am wrong???? > >/jim From alex@ifb.net Tue Oct 29 13:57:52 1996 From: alex@ifb.net (Alex Clark) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 13:57:52 -0000 Subject: FAO:< This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BBC5A1.2D958200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Manchester is way wrong! > Also, Aberdeen looks to be a little further north than on the map. :) It is in the right place the problem is that the resolution of the VRML map does not really show the UK properly so we end up in the sea. The GIFs show us in the right place however and they have the better background map. Alex ----------------------------------------------------------------- Alex Clark alex@ifb.net Business Development http://www.ifb.net Internet For Business Tel: 01224 595111 387 Union Street, Aberdeen, UK. AB11 6BX Fax: 01224 595333 ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_01BBC5A1.2D958200 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Manchester is way = wrong!

> Also, Aberdeen looks to be a little further north = than on the map. :)

It is in the right place the problem is that = the resolution of the VRML map does not really show the UK properly so = we end up in the sea. The GIFs show us in the right place however and = they have the better background map.

Alex


------------------------------------------------------------= -----
Alex Clark =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;     alex@ifb.net
Business Development =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp; http://www.ifb.net
Internet For Business =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp; Tel: 01224 595111
387 Union Street, Aberdeen, UK. AB11 6BX =        Fax: 01224 = 595333
---------------------------------------------------------------= --


------=_NextPart_000_01BBC5A1.2D958200-- From Alain.Durand@imag.fr Tue Oct 29 15:44:59 1996 From: Alain.Durand@imag.fr (Alain Durand) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 16:44:59 +0100 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: Bob Fink LBNL "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 29, 4:25am) References: Your message of "Mon 28 Oct 96 17:06:53 PST." Message-ID: <961029164459.ZM2046@rama.imag.fr> On Oct 29, 4:25am, Bob Fink LBNL wrote: > Subject: Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page > 6bone folk, > > Given Jim Bound's comments about the vendor list, can I have a quick open > survey before the end of the week on this? The question is, do you want or > not want the vendor list and/or a count (e.g., 5 routers, 10 workstations)? I like the world tour idea a lot, the one with county names. I'm ok to add a separate list of implementations, but I'm reluctant to give any figures (eg: 5 routers...) One thing we could do: use the logos of the diferent implementations as we found them on playground. I'm not sure if there is any legal issue about that, I guess the minimum should be to ask the implementors if it's ok to use their logo. Only few logos are missing, I have collected then in alphabetic order, you can see them at http://www.ipv6.imag.fr/logos/logo.html - Alain. From crawdad@fnal.gov Tue Oct 29 15:52:18 1996 From: crawdad@fnal.gov (Matt Crawford) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:52:18 -0600 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: "29 Oct 1996 04:25:12 PST." <"v03007807ae9ba729c025"@[128.3.9.22]> Message-ID: <199610291552.JAA11160@gungnir.fnal.gov> Bob, Short answer: I see no need to list implementors on the shirt. Jim, Long answer: When someone does something good, they should be recognized and/or rewarded. But it is not necessary to reward them in every possible way and to recognize them in every possible form. If implementors belong on the shirt, how about the spec-writers? How about the working group members who spoke up at meetings or sent email? How about the alpha testers not already included in the preceding list? When the fruits of your labor become a commercial product, will all the non-DEC contributors be recognized and mentioned in some material which accompanies the product? I don't think such mention would be any more or less necessary than getting the implementors listed on a T-shirt. The implementors are already recognized and will be several times again. (Do you think it isn't so?) But when will the early users be recognized, if not now? Jim, I was offended by the very hostile tone of your message, and all the more so because the very next message in my inbox was your admonition of Ohta to be more polite. To even make such a claim as > It feels like POLITICS is taking precedence over DOING THE RIGHT THING. presupposes that you know what the "right thing" is and nobody else does. Is that the IETF way? And isn't it a political act to say this? Well, it's an election year. We're all feeling a little overdosed on rhetoric. Matt From deering@parc.xerox.com Tue Oct 29 16:32:10 1996 From: deering@parc.xerox.com (Steve Deering) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 08:32:10 PST Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: crawdad's message of Tue, 29 Oct 96 07:52:18 -0800. <199610291552.JAA11160@gungnir.fnal.gov> Message-ID: <96Oct29.083210pst."75270"@digit.parc.xerox.com> I agree with what Matt Crawford said. Steve From rja@cisco.com Tue Oct 29 17:10:05 1996 From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:10:05 PST Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: Matt Crawford "Re: Tshirt info on 6bone web page" (Oct 29, 9:52am) Message-ID: <199610291710.JAA12769@cornpuffs.cisco.com> In short, I agree with Matt Crawford. It is Bob Fink's project to print up the t-shirts and it should be his decision, but my vote is to omit all implementers. There are several grounds: - it clutters up the t-shirt and distracts people from the main point which is that the 6bone is up and running now. - as Matt mentioned the implementers will get their recognition anyway in due course of time. - mentioning implementers but not other important contributors seems unfair to those other contributors. - it looks a lot like product marketing Like Matt, I was offended by the "very hostile tone" of Jim's note, particularly since the t-shirt is Bob's idea, Bob's effort, and Bob's project. Ran rja@cisco.com -- From rja@cisco.com Tue Oct 29 21:13:18 1996 From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 13:13:18 PST Subject: IPv6-capable web browser ?? Message-ID: <199610292113.NAA17289@cornpuffs.cisco.com> Can anyone provide a URL for an IPv6-capable web browser client ? Thanks, Ran -- From bound@zk3.dec.com Wed Oct 30 02:54:24 1996 From: bound@zk3.dec.com (bound@zk3.dec.com) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 21:54:24 -0500 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 Oct 96 09:52:18 CST." <199610291552.JAA11160@gungnir.fnal.gov> Message-ID: <9610300254.AA06767@wasted.zk3.dec.com> Matt, I will respond to you privately on your comparing me to a previous mail I made in an official IETF working group. This is not an IETF activity but I don't think I was out of line. I was questioning whether a decision was done in an open manner. I was questioning the fairness of a "decision" which is not political just me. More on that to you privately. On implementers vs others. Users. Of course but having the sites on the T-Shirt I believe covers the users who clearly are the real heroes and risk takers using their time. I would vote out the vendor implementations if we could not have the sites actually on the 6bone T-Shirts. My assumption is that they will be on the T-Shirt, and there is room for the implementations. Others you mentioned. Spec writers get their names on specs as one other you speak of. Implementors are much different. Its like the chicken and the egg, and the pig and the bacon. The chicken is involved with making an egg, the pig is "committed" to the bacon. The vendors have provided the bacon and a very "costly" commitment to assist the 6bone to actually run. So I emphatically disagree with your mail and hope others state its OK to have the vendors on the T-Shirts to Bob. So far its Yes =2 and No = 1. /jim From bound@zk3.dec.com Wed Oct 30 03:13:47 1996 From: bound@zk3.dec.com (bound@zk3.dec.com) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 22:13:47 -0500 Subject: IPv6-capable web browser ?? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 Oct 96 13:13:18 PST." <199610292113.NAA17289@cornpuffs.cisco.com> Message-ID: <9610300313.AA07485@wasted.zk3.dec.com> Contact mccann@zk3.dec.com. NASA has one too via Andrew. The two have interoperated offline via the 6bone. Appache is the code base. /jim From bound@zk3.dec.com Wed Oct 30 04:00:56 1996 From: bound@zk3.dec.com (bound@zk3.dec.com) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 23:00:56 -0500 Subject: Tshirt info on 6bone web page In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 Oct 96 09:10:05 PST." <199610291710.JAA12769@cornpuffs.cisco.com> Message-ID: <9610300400.AA09769@wasted.zk3.dec.com> I agree on two counts with your mail. 1) Nothing should detract from the main point of the 6bone. 2) Its bob's probject...etc.. I am not clear now that #1 above would be affected if it would then the vendors should not be on the T-Shirt. In fact right now Bob is the only one who has this design in his head completely and if he feels that in anyway that this will detract from its purpose and states that then I will also vote no implementations on the T-Shirt? Bob if this is the case I and others need to know that? But Bob should not have asked for any input or all input is what I was stating. Bob stated he got input offline not on the 6bone. 1) I don't think thats right or fair. 2) Yes it was hostile as a lot of things happen offline that should not and two other things went down on this 6bone effort that were offline that affected others and I dealt with it offline with Bob and it got fixed. I felt that this situation called for some intensity as Bob can't control who sends him data offline. So my intensity is for those who did not want to state this to the entire community in public, but thats their option. But its mine to have the question polled to this community. To me this is not hostile but intense. Hostile is if I am in a meeting and pick up a chair and bash someone in the head with it. Or push my fist in their nose. Etc. Etc... If I perceive an injustice I will always be intense and note I said ...."I hope I am wrong" meaning I was not sure. If that intensity bothers others when I did not attack them or anyone (which I did not) or slight them, then thats just too bad it must be hard to go outside every day on the street if this intensity bothers you. /jim From sakurai@rinfo.sumiden.co.jp Wed Oct 30 04:22:39 1996 From: sakurai@rinfo.sumiden.co.jp (Akihiro Sakurai) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 13:22:39 +0900 Subject: New Tunnels Message-ID: <199610300422.NAA21602@rinfogw.rinfo.sumiden.co.jp> All, I have connected an IPv6 router at Sumitomo Electric to the 6bone and I put SUMITOMO-JP entry at RIPE. There are two tunnels from SUMITOMO-JP. SUMITOMO-JP <-> SUMITOMO-USA SUMITOMO-JP <-> NUS-IRDU If sites carrying full routing could add an appropriate routing entry, that would be appreciated. Bob, If you could update the map accordingly when time permits, that would be much appreciated. Regards, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Akihiro Sakurai (櫻井 章広) E-mail:sakurai@rinfo.sumiden.co.jp Systems and Electronics R & D Center, Sumitomo Electric Industries, Ltd. Phone +81-6-466-5601 Fax +81-6-462-4586 From bound@zk3.dec.com Wed Oct 30 17:21:14 1996 From: bound@zk3.dec.com (bound@zk3.dec.com) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 12:21:14 -0500 Subject: T-shirts Message-ID: <9610301721.AA07170@wasted.zk3.dec.com> Bob, Spoke with Matt Crawford off line and he pointed out the errors of my thinking. You asked for input not consensus. I apologize I missed this point. The only defense I have is I am very paranoid of the good-ole-boy network that has joined this list. Its your call and I think the key point is for people to see that the 6bone is working and growing exponentially. Sincerely, /jim From ganis@VNET.IBM.COM Wed Oct 30 19:04:16 1996 From: ganis@VNET.IBM.COM (Matthew R. Ganis (914) 684-4575) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 14:04:16 EST Subject: New Site: IBM Message-ID: <199610301958.AA17633@venera.isi.edu> We've just brought our tunnel up to NRL (thanks to Ron Lee for all the help). Our RIPE entry is: site: IBM Global Network location: Harrison, New York, USA loc-string: ? prefix: 5fff:b400:c0e7:0b00::0/64 ping: 5fff:b400:c0e7:0b00:0000:0000:0000:0001 tunnel: 192.231.11.103 132.250.90.5 NRL contact: Matt Ganis status: operational since October 29, 1996 remark: please report any problems to contact above. source: RIPE Matt Ganis. *********************************************************************** "The best way to get praise | Return Address: is to die" | IBM VNET: GANIS at RHQVM19 Italian Proverb | Internet: ganis@vnet.ibm.com | IPNET: ganis@bacchus.ims.advantis.com From rja@cisco.com Wed Oct 30 23:51:02 1996 From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:51:02 PST Subject: new 6bone tunnel Message-ID: <199610302351.PAA04923@cornpuffs.cisco.com> A new IPv6 tunnel has been setup from 6bone-router.cisco.com to netgod.org. The ping is attached below. Cisco's entry in the RIPE IPv6 database will be updated in a few minutes. If sites maintaining full routing could update their routing tables and if the map maintainers could add this link, it would be appreciated. Ran rja@cisco.com -- From rja@cisco.com Wed Oct 30 23:51:40 1996 From: rja@cisco.com (Ran Atkinson) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:51:40 PST Subject: cisco--NetGod tunnel Message-ID: <199610302351.PAA04953@cornpuffs.cisco.com> Sorry, I forgot to actually cut/paste the ping. Here's the ping data: 6bone-router#ping ipv6 netgod-ipv6 Type escape sequence to abort. Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 5F11:B600:CE81:4100::0020:AF9E:4703, timeout is 2 seconds: !!!!! Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 36/44/52 ms Ran -- From ganis@VNET.IBM.COM Thu Oct 31 14:28:42 1996 From: ganis@VNET.IBM.COM (Matthew R. Ganis (914) 684-4575) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 09:28:42 EST Subject: New Site: IBM Message-ID: <199610311431.AA28116@venera.isi.edu> We had some routing problems here but I think everything is corrected now. I'm routing 5f00::0/8 to NRL now. previous I was only routing NRL's prefix. Could others please update their routing tables to include us (5fff:b400:c0e7:b00::/64) thanks, Matt. *********************************************************************** "The best way to get praise | Return Address: is to die" | IBM VNET: GANIS at RHQVM19 Italian Proverb | Internet: ganis@vnet.ibm.com | IPNET: ganis@bacchus.ims.advantis.com